bleachness | Have some singing Szayel and a couple strong opinions

http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/ posting in

In this post you will find:
1. A link to download the latest Bleach Beat collection featuring the incomparable Toriumi Kousuke as Szayel Aporro Grantz grooving your petri dishes, rocking your test tube racks and blinding you with science.
2. An explanation to clear things up once and for all: THE NEWS OF SZAYEL'S DEATH IS GREATLY EXAGGERATED
3. An answer to why, if I shipped IchiOri, chapter 313 would make me throw in the towel

1. Szayel sings.

~~http://www.sendspace.com/file/1j89e4~~(sendspace) NEW LINK: http://www.sendspace.com/file/kmx88z

ETA:
with thanks to Spacecat and Dana of Bleach Asylum for translations.

Lyrics from inside the cover:

Science Show

始まる総勢　強制SHOW
理性前線でBankしろ
解析終了直後のcruel
哀れなGROGGY . crazy shout!
始まる総勢　強制SHOW
必ず驚嘆　喝采END
EXCITEするHunter beat
なるべく綺麗に死んでくれ

GOOD!　I found you! 握る生命
GOD deserted you! ソソる叫号
God bless to you! 軋む生存
Goodbye! Thanks you! CONTROL YOU!

I’m easy. You speaking wish
Psychology興味はないさ
生存確率０％
サヨナラGROGGY.　Beautiful Burst
始まる総勢　強制SHOW
そろそろ惜しいEnd roll start
僕の名の在り処Mad scientist
なるべく綺麗に魅せてくれ

GOOD!　I found you! 握る精神
GOD deserted you! ソソる恐察
God bless to you! 軋む生能
Goodbye! Thanks you! CONTROL YOU!

Pink

You say, hate me. Please.
All over the world.
I say, bad joke. Bye.
All recorded… You.

予想から　突き抜けて
この胸を　刺すような
理想から　飛び越えて
知性のむこう

I don’t know… Why?
Because, for me to know.
To be pleased to know.
I don’t know… Why?
Because, for me to know.
To know, and to laugh it off.

You say, hate me. Please.
All over the world.
I can smile for you.
All remember… You.

空をみる　華のように
蜜を吸う　蝶のように
探してる　求めてる
理性の先で

I don’t know… Why?
Because, for me to know.
To be pleased to know.
I don’t know… Why?
Because, for me to know.
To know, and to laugh it off.

2. The news of Szayel's death has been greatly exaggerated.....

Okay, it's getting more than a little annoying to us Szayel fans when people keep saying the guy's dead. Not only did Kubo make it plain that this Espada is teh jesus and is destined to rise again, but please, let's reread the manga people and realize what Mayuri did to Szayel. At no point was it ever made clear that Mayuri's zanpakutou pierced Szayel's heart. HAD THE ZANPAKUTOU DONE SO, there would have been the risk, never mind Szayel's poisoned altered state of consciousness, that he would simply impregnate the nearest cutie pie and be born again....

MAYURI'S ZANPAKUTOU WENT THOUGH SZAYEL'S HAND, EFFECTIVELY SUGGESTING CRUCIFIXTION AND THEN MAYURI BROKE THE BLADE.

Remember? Ishida went "hey! Your blade is broken!" and Kubo went to the trouble of showing us that, in fact, Szayel was NOT DEAD.

Um, here, it looks like he's doomed for sure....

but methinks Mayuri didn't want the bastard to die; he wanted Szayel to THINK he was gonna die; Mayuri wanted Szayel to suffer eternal torment.
Look closer. Szayel is still waiting for his death.

This is how Kubo leaves him. Not dead. In eternal suffering. Can't say that this isn't what the bastard deserved, but can't say that we're not going to see him again. Yes, Mayuri has access to Szayel's secrets now and Szayel's lab. But Szayel didn't get the farewell Arrancar flashback that Nnoi and others did. I do not believe his time is up.

His time is his suffering and if he comes out of this he's only going to come out of it crazier than ever! (I can't wait)

3. If I shipped IchiOri, chapter 313 would make me throw in the towel and this is why.....

Let me gloat.

I don't gloat often. Honest, I don't. Tell me--except for a few boats of fangirly incoherence which I've always chided myself for, haven't I always been a model of diplomacy and temperance when it comes to shipping debate and haven't I campaigned for getting the nyah-nyahs out of the sport? I've written my shipping essays with self-deprecating humor, right? Okay, well, some of you thought I was a total snot, but the TRUE REASON, stated in intros and here and around those three authorial intent essays for my writing them was that chapter 237, Orihime's confession and the subsequent focus on her and Ichigo in the Hueco Mundo arc put the fear of termites in the temple of IchiRuki and I wanted to REASSURE everybody--hey, no worries, this is par for the course, this is the author playing and making stuff interesting and developing Orihime's character, but look close---there's still IchiRuki there. And my point in those essays was that there was no IchiOri happening in HM. But I had the huevos to admit the threat to the ship, right? KUBO WROTE IT.

Well, now, Ichigo and Orihime have been separated once again, and I must say: Wow. If I'd been shipping those two, I'd've been really disappointed with their interactions this arc. No meaningful conversations--no time alone--there was Orihime's being afraid of Ichigo and cheering him on lamely (only at Nel's goading) and the manga-ka didn't linger on panels the way he could've. In fact he went out of his way to have Grimmjow, Nel, Kenpachi, and the random noises of battle blur the two, whereas when Ichigo and Rukia were featured, other characters fell away and the focus was on Ichigo and Rukia alone.

Let me gloat.

When Orihime was taken away by Ulquiorra , she had one of the most touching farewell scenes EVER but too bad Ichigo was unconscious and didn't witness her leaving. When Rukia was taken to SS by Byakuya and Renji, there was mutual angst. There was mutual grief. EYE CONTACT, baby, and irony. "I'll never forgive you" turns some chapters later into "the man I keep in my heart." There's a suggestion of "forever" there. It's a forever that has an emotional maturity and resonance that "I'd love the same guy five lifetimes" doesn't match, imv.

So, here in chapter 313, we have a chance for Ichigo to witness Orihime being taken away from him, and what do we get? He didn't cry out "Inoue!" Note the size of his one reaction panel. Note that he said "THEY disappeared" and he didn't just concentrate on Inoue. Note that his separation was preceded by comedy and then Stark rushed in, slam, bam, goodbye, thx, versus the several PAGES of angst we had when Rukia was taken. Look. Here is Ichigo's big reaction to Orihime's being taken away (and mind you, this follows his having to be told by Kenpachi to take the girl out of here and leave--Ichigo wanted to stay and fight)

Rukia's capture? I can't even post all the pages! But there was this reaction, that horrible anguished cry:

And then that black page:

Re-read the chapters to see how empty Ichigo's life was following that scene. How much do you want to bet that we're going to get action-zoom-plot and very little angst next week over Orihime's sudden re-kidnapping? Methinks the invasion of Karakura will take more notice.

Reunions, likewise separations, are important, in terms of how Kubo treats them.

The famous Ichigo and Orihime "reunion" in Hueco Mundo. Well hello thar Nel.... and.... oh, Inoue.

The FIRST IchiRuki reunion on the bridge. No dialogue necessary. Kubo "illustrating the air"
as he says he does when characters take precedence over plot.

Let me gloat. I may still be wrong, and if I am, I will be humble and apologize and eat my many hats and say "ok, I was dumb and you were right" but today a young, insecure IchiRuki shipper in the BA FC needed coddling and this is what I wrote her:

The word is that Ichi and Ruki can't have a meaningful reunion if Orihime is gone again and their hearts are heavy over her being in danger.

Think for a minute.

WHAT?

When have Ichigo and Rukia NOT had a meaningful reunion? Danger or no danger, grievous pain or no pain, the spirit body of Ichigo's mother cast aside by Grand Fisher or a giant flaming bird heading to execute Rukia? Kubo-sensei takes time and care to make all interactions between Ichigo and Rukia meaningful.

Please. Note the separation scene between Ichigo and Rukia at the bridge when she was taken by Byakuya and Renji to SS. The tears, the rain, the black full page of despair. The lingering on the despair. Note Orihime's being snatched from Ichigo in this chapter. Whoops, see ya later, a charming Stark goes bye bye, and like Annie said, Ichigo doesn't scream INOUE! he just goes "they disappeared!" I LOL-ed. The previous scene with Kenpachi had been so funny and that's the mood I was in. There was no romance, no connection--this wasn't IchiOri. Not at all.

I can't call the plot. I don't know what Kubo's got up his sleeve. All I know is that when he puts Ichigo and Rukia together again sparks will fly. SOLAR FLARES will fly. Supernova waves of nuclear energy will radiate. Yeah. Even if it's for a panel or two.

Has he ever let us down before?

Trust in Kubo-sensei.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

deathlike.livejournal.com

When Aizen said Ichigo's role is over... His role is over; the blade must be picked up and defend humanity no matter what circumstances.

From:

spanky-o.livejournal.com

(I've tried HEAVILY to avoid being involved in this IchiOri or IchiRuki debate, but I'll weigh in this time.)

The panel where both Zaraki and Ichigo head for Stark speaks volumes to me. Like everyone is saying, Ichigo never screams out for Inoue. If it were Rukia, he would've. After all, he nearly ignored Ulquiorra to go to Rukia when he felt her reiatsu vanished. Ichigo's intention, when he saw Stark appear, wasn't to save Inoue from the Espada, it was more to kick the Espada's ass. No concern over Inoue being kidnapped again. At all.

And debbie, you bring up a good point about the progression of KT's storytelling. In ANY sort of serious situation, there's a build-up to it and sort of a "walk through" (if I may), making the reader feel more a part of what the characters are feeling. If there is comedy before it, it fades quickly. There's a build-up of "emoness," then the zinger comes in [ex. Rukia's "I'll never forgive you" or even Orihime's "Goodbye Halcyon days"). With this chapter, it was comedy then surprise. That's it. No emotion in the slightest. Not even a "OMG I FAIL AS A HUMAN BEING CUZ I COULDN'T SAVE HER FROM TEH ESPADA" from Ichigo. The most emotion I felt was from Tesla. A freaking Fraccion on the ground, mourning for his Espada.

Sad.

I could be wrong, though. We really don't know what's going to happen in the next chapter. Maybe Ichigo does get all mopey (highly doubt it with this amount of excitement in the manga). I'm hoping Rukia shows up this next chapter though. Along with Renji, Ishida, and everyone else. Anyone curious as to what happened to Chad?

From:

07janina07.livejournal.com

I love you! I love the gloating,I know some people are anoyed with this phrase but I can't help it. ICHIRUKI IS SO CANNON!!!!

I am sorry to say that Ichigo's face was o.O 'She is gone? Damn it how am I going to tell Rukia I lost her friend?'

Kubo has been so blatant with Ichiruki, I can't wait to see our fifth reunion of Ichiruki! I can just smelled the wondeful scent of Ichiruki fandom food.

IS COMING!!! IS COMING!!!!!!!!!!

ICHIRUKI SUPERNOVA!!!!!!!!!!

From:

zelha.livejournal.com

Can I gloat with you?! 8D

From:

hidden-gems.livejournal.com

Thank you for the music!! So far I like Pink better, I think. They're quite good.

And oh man, you've used 2 of my all time favourite scenes... The LOOK in their eyes, it's... argoaidyf;ahs;odyv;asdhv!! Dammit, I'm going to finally have to draw something IchiRuki to get it out of my system. I want to see their next reunion!!

From:

tangerine-haze.livejournal.com

You're soooooo right. IchiRukia all the way. Never really got a feeling of IshiHime from show/manga either. I knew Orihime wanted him, but the closest IchiHime was when she almost kissed a sleeping Ichigo. At which I found myself screaming NOOOOOOOO don't do it, wake up Ichigo, make her stop! Even she couldnt' do it in the end cause she knew it was wrong.

IshiHime on the other hand.... that's love. :)

From:

andrew-jp.livejournal.com

Szayel's not dead, but he might as well be.

1. Mayuri's drug has fucked him up so badly his body is all shriveled up, and that was a few chapters ago. How much longer before it just kills him outright?

2. There's still a blade a few millimeters from his heart. A quick push from Renji or Ishida on their way out and he's toast.

3. Even if he survives, he'll be useless. What he's going through is about 100,000 times worse than, say, Uchiha Itachi's Tsukiyomi, and if he ever comes about he's going to be crazy-not extravagantly mad like before, but a vegetable drooling in the corner. At best he'll be like the Scarecrow in Batman Begins; randomly showing up later only to be quickly dispatched by people on their way to fight more effective opponents.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/

Ya know, Andrew, I thought that Mayuri's drug only messed up Szayel's perception of time so that all that wrinky stuff we saw was his perception of himself in some trippy way as the moments passed. DON'T TELL MY PRETTY FACE IS GONE. D;

If you're right about Mayuri's poison having some other effect then yeah, Szayel is ... in trouble. As is, I still believe he's too good a character to be killed off.

My theory: any Bleach character who gets a Bleach Beat collection DOES NOT die.

From:

marionette71088.livejournal.com

All I have to say for this chapter is: "LOL SO HAPPY (as a reader of Bleach and as a shipper/anti-shipper)."

From:

schweinsty.livejournal.com

*Gloats muchly*

XD XD XD. Just read this chapter, and what struck me is that, though it's obvious that Ichigo would go to SS or HM to save any of his friends, the way Kubo's gone about showing how he saves Rukia and Orihime is so different. Like in SS, he and Rukia had Meaningful Interactions; there was always something behind what they were saying - the scene on the Hougyoukou (spelling?) comes to mind - the way he talks to her, I can't see him talking to anyone else like that; but when he's in HM, there's nothing that he says to Orihime, really, that I can't see him saying to any of his other friends if they were in the same situation. Also, of course, is the way they were drawn; in SS he has all those 'noble' poses for Rukia, but in HM there's not a lot that stands out.

So *continues gloating* XD XD XD XD.

From:

wdboldstar.livejournal.com

Man, part of me got tired of how much the Szayel fight dragged on, and thus wants him to be dead, but part of me (the bigger part I think) just loves how absolutely TWISTED he is, and doesn't care, and thus wants him to be alive. I never thought someone could seriously outdo Mayuri on pure evil and squickiness, but despite Mayuri's overall victory, Szayel came damn close. But really, I don't know how many Arrancar who seem to have died are actually dead.

I'm going to say that really, Aaroneiro is the only Espada who is probably completely dead, if only because he's the only one who felt like there was actual meaning and story closure to his death. His death allowed Rukia to bring final and true closure to a painful chapter of her life and work through some bad memories and emotions. In the meantime, Szayel... I feel like he needs to be killed by Ishida, and Nnoitora really needs to be killed by Nel, instead of both being killed by random Captains. There was too much built up in their interactions, and in Nnoitora's backstory, for them to just die unexpectedly to a Deus ex Seretei. I really honestly believe that they'll be back for the Winter War, so that they can have a proper end in a true epic battle with whichever main hero they struggled against.

Heck, I'm almost 99% sure that the Baron and Cirucci are among the specimens in Szayel's lab, and there's even a chance that Mosqueda got healed by Unohana, possibly at Chad's insistence. So in the end, Aizen may have not lost much at all.

Also: Woo Ichiruki! Yeah, I try not to get dragged into the snarkiness, but honestly... Yay Ichiruki! I can feel it, we're only a few chapters away from another kickass reunion.

From: (Anonymous)

What I think you're forgetting in your authorial intent theory is that Kubo is a very pace-driven author. He's taken a lot of influence from movies in particular and pace is a driving force in his work, as can be seen even in the earlier chapters in Bleach and in Zombie Powder (I'm thinking of the pacing of the train-battle chapters in particular, which 313 reminded me of in terms of paneling and pace).

Over the past hundred chapters we've had non-stop battles, people being dragged here, there and everywhere, where's Renji going what's Ichigo doing Inoue just got slammed around oh man what's Gin doing with the corridors now Ulquiorra got sugarcubed what Grimmjow and Nnoitra -- the pace is frenetic, and the situation is a lot direr than it was in the Soul Society arc -- we've got the fate of the world, rather than the fate of just one person (who, it should be argued, wanted to die anyway). Remember that in Soul Society at the point you mention above, we knew nothing of Aizen's plans -- Rukia was the sole objective of the plot, which was being driven by Ichigo's complex (that is, he cannot let another woman die for his sake).

Now, of course, it's different. The objectives are save Inoue, bring her home, stop Aizen, stop the Arrancar, save Karakura, save the world. The plot has not only quadrupled in size and weight, but the characters have multiplied as well. Thus, I don't think you're right to gloat if only because I think your opinions are misguided in Kubo's intent -- his intent is not to do anything other than tell a good story, not to mention, to cope with the sheer scale of this story.

Personally speaking, I love the contrast between Ichigo and Rukia -- who are given time at points of death (Ichigo was left for dead after Byakuya -- alone, in the rain, having failed to save somebody again (compare to his mother, etc. etc.); Rukia was on her way to die with a few attendants and it wasn't a particularly big event in terms of Soul Society (not plot) -- it was the transfer of a prisoner, probably done thousands of times before, and nobody was really around to care), and Ichigo and Orihime, who are constantly given quick snatches of time at the point of life.

Ichigo goes into Hueco Mundo to save her, splits up from his friends who all meet up with their own foes, finds her, gets the absolute tar kicked out of him, is unconscious, wakes up to Orihime healing him (Orihime who, compared to Rukia who was resolved to her death, was protecting and healing yet at the same time stuck under her own vow to destroy the Hougyoku and fight Aizen and obey Aizen at the same time). Ichigo and Orihime aren't given time to be together because so much else is going on; people are injured, people are needing help, and the world is ending and both of them are, in their own ways, the only ones who can stop it -- Ichigo because he is the hero, and Inoue because she is the (at least, she is one of the) heroine(s) with the power to heal and mend and put things right.

They're not given time because there is no time to spare, unlike with Ichigo and Rukia who had time that was running out. There's a very fundamental difference there. Neither Ichigo nor Orihime have, at any point, been expected to die, and so the situations you mention are incredibly different, especially in so-called authorial intent.

(What you neglected to mention, too, is that while Ichigo and Orihime have very frenetic, fast-paced reunions that take a second-seat to the current plot, they had that long conversation after the fight with Grimmjow that, once the pace had slowed down (i.e., there was no more fighting to be done), was just as -- if not more meaningful -- than the ones with Ichigo and Rukia.)

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/

your authorial intent theory

? It's not a theory. It's a literary term that facilitates discussion. If you think I have a theory would you kindly explain to me what it is?

Thus, I don't think you're right to gloat if only because I think your opinions are misguided in Kubo's intent -- his intent is not to do anything other than tell a good story, not to mention, to cope with the sheer scale of this story.

I have the right to gloat in my LJ comm as much as I've got a right to pee in my own toilet. And as for Kubo's intent to tell a good story, when have I ever said different? Show me where I have. I don't understand what you think I believe his intent is at all.

They're (Ichigo and Orihime) not given time because there is no time to spare, unlike with Ichigo and Rukia

I'm puzzled here--who is in charge of the time? The author. A blazing bird was heading for Rukia all set to execute her and yet Kubo found time for there to be a "yo" and a conversation and an argument and a completely intimate exchange. Time was scarce for Ichigo and Rukia in SS in many occasions. Byakuya had wait while they argued on the bridge. In HM, Kubo deliberately, yes, intentionally looked over periods in which he could bring Orihime and Ichigo together. The most we got were side by side reaction panels similar to what we got from Renji and Ishida when they were watching Szayel fight Mayuri et al. It wasn't a matter of circumstances keeping Ichigo and Orihime too busy to interact; it was a matter of the author not taking advantage of the many opportunities to make them do so.

What you neglected to mention, too, is that while Ichigo and Orihime have very frenetic, fast-paced reunions that take a second-seat to the current plot, they had that long conversation after the fight with Grimmjow that, once the pace had slowed down (i.e., there was no more fighting to be done), was just as -- if not more meaningful -- than the ones with Ichigo and Rukia.

What? Can you reproduce this conversation for me? Are you referring to the comedic exchange in which he mistakeningly suggested she was fat and Nel socked him in the balls for that? The most serious of that whole exchange was their saying that they were glad the other was all right. Now how any of that can be MORE meaningful that the sum of IchiRuki exchanges where Rukia says she'll wait until Ichigo is ready to tell her more about his mother, where he has his head in her lap following the Grand Fisher fight, where he says he wants her happiness above all when leaving Soul Society and tells her she made the rain stop....

Sorry....

I'm having trouble seeing that that IchiOri exchange as meaningful or seeing you as an honest self-identified "non-shipper."

I agreed with you on one thing--Kubo's pacing is cinematic. He draws a lot from movies and his plot is very visually guided--as are most manga plots. But his is a character-driven plot. I see an author in control.

Edited Date: 2008-03-08 08:55 pm (UTC)

From:

descrime.livejournal.com

who is in charge of the time? The author.

YES! I don't know why some readers can't seem to grasp that concept. Or even the more basic concept: the author is in charge of the plot. I think it's very telling that Ichigo DOESN'T rescue Inoue, that she is in fact brought to him. And here again, he doesn't even bother to try to get her out of the war zone to safety.

On another note, I think KT's had pacing problems since the end of the SS arc. I remember reading the chapters one week at a time post-SS and being like "what the f*** is going on?" Vizards show up for a couple of weeks, but then they completely disappear and we have a couple months of shinigami and then the vizards come back for a little while and it just seemed kind of haphazard to me.

And HM has been disastrous in pacing, IMO. One of the most beautiful things about the SS arc was the irony. Team ICHIGO might have been the just heroes, but they were invading a place and disrupting the law and being seen by the Shinigami as criminals, which was just awesome. It was good guys acting bad for the sake of a girl who knew ahead of time she was breaking the law, and it was shinigami trying to protect themselves against these unknown invaders. Plus, Aizen died by mysterious means and there was this unknown conspiracy going on. Most importantly, all the fights had heart. Ishida-Mayuri, Ichigo-Renji, Ichigo-Byakuya, Renji-Byakuya, Soi Fong-Yoroichi, Ichigo-Zaraki--each of these fights had a more important story behind them that fueled the fights and made the pages of swinging swords interesting. Plus, lots of the characters' attacks were unleashed for the first time.

The HM arc doesn't have that. Yes, SS (and apparently Ichigo) had doubts over whether Orihime was taken against her will, but there was never any tension for the reader. And except for the Rukia-No 9 fight and the Ichigo-Grimmjow fight, they've pretty much been snooze fests for me. I don't like the Arrancars. Yes, they have their own reasons for doing things, but they're one dimensional reasons, nothing as complicated at Byakuya's conflict in SS. I find Sayzel boring, and his fight went on way too freaking long. All the fights (except Rukia's and Ichigo-Grimmjow's) went on too long, and the fact those didn't shows, I think, that KT knows how to pace the plot properly, he's just been stuffing a lot of filler crap into the fights that don't really matter character development wise to drag them out.

The reasons for splitting up was stupid in my mind (yes, they can cover all 5 tunnels now, but what happens when one of the characters come to another split tunnel? Are they going to clone themselves?), a way for KT to get out of having to do more complicated multi-character fights.

And I have yet to figure out why Aizen let the group run around killing his soldiers rather than just wiping them out. At least, SS couldn't track them, but Aizen knows everything that goes on in his creepy palace.

One thing I do like is Ichigo's move from traditional shonen hero to someone who's developed almost a thirst for fighting. But the drawn out nature of this arc has made the development hard to see for all except the most rabid fans. We should have been at this point last year. We could have been at this point last year if the fights had been kept to their 2-3 chapter maximum and the non-important fights had been kept to one chapter like in SS.

Sorry for the long reply. ^^;;

From:

shinigami-lucia.livejournal.com

Ah, I think there's two reasons why the idea of splitting into 5 directions was introduced by Kubo.

(1) To let the readers know how much Ichigo is concerned for Rukia's safety. A nice parallel to what we learn in ch313 about Ichigo not too concern about Orihime's.

(2) It's a shounen series. I think I heard someone mentioned before that shounen suppose to have a one-on-one fights. So yeah...

From:

marionette71088.livejournal.com

Hello Non-shipper-san,

Yes, the central story of SS is Ichigo and Rukia but the central story is not about Orihime here - at least not about Ichigo's relationship with her. I just don't get why that's accidental and helps the argument that the deep and meaningful IchiOri relationship exists, why Kubo can't help but give Rukia and Ichigo a whole arc to develop their relationship when he doesn't mean for that relationship to be important.

And regardless of how much panel time Kubo gives Ichigo and Orihime to reunite/part, Ichigo lacked reaction. If something traumatic happens you are going to have feelings regardless of whether you have "time" or not. And what "time" did Ichigo and Rukia have again? You mean that time when Byakuya offed Ganju and was about to kill Hana when Ichigo appeared? Or that time Rukia's soul was about to be dissolved by that giant flaming bird? Even when Renji and Rukia was running away from the enemy they made time to talk about Ichigo and her. Before SS arc, they had time for intimate talks when they are running toward Ichigo's family who was being attacked by Grand Fisher and when there's a hollow standing between them; or in this arc, when GJ was frozen for a split second right beside them.

From:

eframepilot.livejournal.com

You're blaming the pace for Ichigo and Orihime's lack of meaningful dialogue? The pace has been glacial. The fight against Nnoitra lasted over twenty chapters, and the fight against Szayeloporro lasted twice that. Heck, Kubo dedicated half of the current chapter to flashbacks of Nnoitra, even after the last chapter was mostly flashbacks of Nnoitra! If Kubo wanted to give Ichigo and Orihime meaningful interaction, he would have done it instead of leaving them as mostly silent observers to Nel and Kenpachi's fights for the past twenty chapters. There was tons of time for Ichigo and Orihime to talk while Kenpachi and Nnoitra fought, but Kubo chose to make them more interested in the fight than each other.

From:

wicked-liz.livejournal.com

"authorial intent"

Is an actual term, Deb didn't invent it. Google that shit, it exists - Also you might want to look up the terms "subjective" and "objective".

If you actually understood the IDEA of an author's intent, you would understand the point of PACING being part of it.

From:

princessjeza07.livejournal.com

My,my, for a non-shipper dear, you seem to be taking the IchiHimes side in all this. You are even making up excuses for them. As debbiechan said the Kubo-sama is in charge of time in the story. If Kubo-sama wanted to, he could have devoted 10 chapters just for IchiHime bonding time. I mean he did it for the Espada, the freaking bad guys for crying out loud!!. I mean hey, I like Ulquiorra, Nel, and Grim. But I don't give a rat's @ss about their past or the reason they fighting.(sorry I just don't ^^;)

Also when Ichigo and Orihime DID have a chance to talk, Ichigo didn't ask Orihime about how she really came to be in the HM, nor did ask her about how she came to be in his room and healed his hand. Ichigo was in a rush to get back to Rukia's side ever since Ulquiorra told him she has dead. Kubo-sama didn't even show Ichigo's eyes( because his eyes always betrays what he is feeling) after he is told this. Heck even I was shocked about Ichigo's lack of reaction to seeing Orihime again after finding out she was really taken against her will. Kubo-sama had plenty of time to bring Orihime and Ichigo together if he wanted to. He choose not to!! What the IchiHimes don't get is that this Arc was never about them. And now that it's ending soon, they are bitter about it. I mean Rukia stole the show in this arc alot. Her "classroom" reunon with Ichigo, her being in his room taken care of him after the 2nd battle with grimmjow. Her "nakama" reunon Ichigo. Her influence on Ichigo even from a distance, and her fight with the fake Kaien. Kubo-sama can't help that he loves Rukia and Ichigo together.

Now to you Mr.Anonymous... I am calling you out!! You are not a non-shipper you are a IchiHime! Sorry your pairing didn't work out. But don't take that out on debbiechan!! She is very valuble to the IchiRuki community!! But be glad that Orihime has grown to be a stronger and more mature charater. Sorry for the long post debbiechan! love ya! ^_^v

From:

virkallea.livejournal.com

Posting anonymously does not give your "neutral" claim much credibility, you know.

Authorial intent is not a theory. It's been said half a dozen times but it's worth saying again until it is understood. Authorial intent is not a theory.

From:

wicked-liz.livejournal.com

x__X

*DIED LAUGHING*

~~and I don't even like Kubo at the mo'~~

From:

shinigami-lucia.livejournal.com

Debbie, excellent post! *hugs*

From:

yahoosoda.livejournal.com

First of all, congratulations Debbie!!! :)

I'll admit I didn't go through all the comments but I somehow got the gist of them.

To those who feel it was the pacing that destroyed IchiOri...tell me...what is the difference between prolonged separation and the failure of a mission?

Last I checked, Orihime was rescued pretty quickly in HM. She has spent a lot of time with Ichigo (technically alone) while he battled in HM. While the author intentionally focused on the battles, when the scenes cut to Orihime did the author provide any depth of emotions on her part? Not really...unless you count 'Kurosaki-kun' as depth. The author never gives us a glimpse of her thoughts in HM as she watches the man she will give 5 lifetimes to love go into battle.

It is that that makes me believe that the HM arc is nothing more but a failed mission compared to prolonged separation because thoughts and emotions remain so detached from it. The Karakura team is a given a mission and they go in there and fight with thoughts and feelings playing second fiddle or practically non-existent.

Prolonged separation, as some of the IchiOri people might call it, require a wealth of thoughts and emotions. 'Prolonged Separation' in a relationship is a powerful phrase only if we are given a glimpse of the internal sorrow in such an event. But there is no glimpse of that...no in depth thoughts were given away...

Why?

Because it is what Kubo has intended.

From:

yahoosoda.livejournal.com

Drat, I can't seem to edit...my apologies...

And lastly if emotions were written on her face (which is something that is rather subjective), why in the world did Kubo give us access to thoughts in previous chapters when something momentous is about to happen and here he does not?

It is the a glimpse of the thoughts that will bind the intensity of the scene not the bulging eyeballs that are prone to subjective interpretation. (i.e. Mona Lisa)

From:

xilvrin.livejournal.com

OF COURSE SZAYEL IS NOT DEAD
http://silvanoir.deviantart.com/art/Bleach-NOT-DEAD-79568708

(finally finished that piCture I said I was working on...)

From:

mezzo-marinaio.livejournal.com

Dear anonymous,

it's not my intention to be mean here, but... 'authorial intent' is, in actual fact, a literary term, and not one THAT hard to understand.

I mean, come on: AUTHORIAL INTENT. The intent of the author. Kubo's intention. Kubo's intention when writing the manga.

Seems pretty clear to me that it's something that just IS.

Well, unless you believe Kubo simply writes chapter upon chapter every week with no particular plan in mind, no understanding of his characters and no careful execution of the plot. Which, uh - if you've read the SS arc, is CLEARLY not the case.

Oh, and by the way, do please try not to say things like 'you have no right to gloat' in debbie-chan's OWN JOURNAL - they make you sound bitter and defensive.

Thank you, have a nice day! ^^

From: (Anonymous)

could you upload the song file again on send space? its not working and it said to ask the downloader to re-do it so......i would love it if you could.... thx (=