Ichigo Analysis Essay

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Ok, so this is my first essay here. Heck, it's my first entry on LiveJournal. So you guys will have to bear with me a bit. If you don't like cynicism and sarcasm, you might not like this. But the point is to better understand Ichigo. The point is to see him for who he is. You might be just a tad shocked, actually. And I'm not saying that everything here has to be right, that's why there's a lovely comment system. So we can have intelligent discussions.

See, I'm not so much looking at "what he should be doing" as I am "what he should be thinking about." This is about his motives.

...But first, before reading this essay, please take time to make sure you have caught up with the latest chapter, just released today (the essay focuses heavily on it)! Here, I'll get you some links. =D
MangaStream: http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/388-27/1
OneManga: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/388/01/

What's funny to me is that, even after Aizen's speech on hatred, when we look at Ichigo's reaction...
http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/388-27/17
I just don't see hatred in that. I hardly even see anger. I just see shock, fear even.

Aizen's right. Ichigo has little desire to actually fight Aizen. He's made the same oath like 5 times, to defeat some guy out of a simple sense of responsibility (Aizen even said this, it's simple responsibility/obligation). Aizen hasn't killed a single person that was close to him yet. Sure, he made the Grand Fisher, which killed Masaki, but Ichigo has already resolved that issue when he fought the GF to the death (or at least, he seems to have resolved it by now, since I sure don't see any real hatred in him right now). Yes, Aizen is planning to kill off all of Karakura to make a key, but has he done it yet? You know, when Ichigo was told about Aizen's plans to sacrifice Karakura, he reacted in nothing but confidence that he could stop Aizen. But later, he seems to forget all about it when he goes off to save Orihime. Well, Ichigo is the kind of person who cares more about the people he knows than the people he doesn't know. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying he doesn't care about it. It's just that, from the way Ichigo has reacted to the whole Karakura thing so far, it seems like it's not at the top of his list of priorities. And yeah, that does matter. It makes all the difference in a fight, actually. That is, just how much you care about something.

The reason he's actually fighting Aizen is because of what Unohana told him. Because she dumped the weight of 3 worlds on his shoulders.

But the reason he originally said he would defeat Aizen, when he was yelling at Grimmjow, was because he thought he had to in order to save his friends.

Well, as Aizen said, his friends are safe now.

Ichigo isn't able to understand his own heart yet. He doesn't understand what he really cares about, or why he fights. He fights on impulse, because "this makes me angry" or "I must defend my honor/pride" or whatever. But when you fight just because "I made a promise to someone" you're fighting for something that has little or nothing to do with you (at least not directly). People are inherently selfish, and it's hard to bear real hatred when YOU haven't actually lost anything yet.

This kind of issue takes years of thinking and reflection, not to mention experience, to be able to resolve. He's far too young to have matured enough to fight Aizen.

And what do you know. Aizen speaks some truth to him and, again, he reacts on impulse. He was about to charge him recklessly, just like Hiyori did. Where did that get her?

Not to mention the sheer difference in power. As Aizen said... Distance doesn't even mean anything in a fight between him and Ichigo. At any moment, his hand can reach Ichigo's heart.

Ichigo could have died at any time, in an instant. Aizen chose to spare him. As for why, we can only guess. But it looks to me like this issue of "why you fight" and "the role of friends" is important to Aizen for some reason. He wouldn't just bring it up for nothing. He wouldn't spare Ichigo's life for no reason.

But when Ichigo forgets where he left his head, all of SS (as well as the Vizards) comes to stop him from being so rash, and to protect him. He shouldn't be coddled like that. If he wants to be killed, if his life means so little to him, and if he can't stop and think for even an instant because of his fear (as well as the pain of hurt pride), then why not let him go ahead?

As old and experienced as the shinigami/vizards in question that stopped Ichigo are, especially Unohana who dumped this load on him in the first place, you would think they would understand that Ichigo can't do this (really, why are they putting all this faith in him? or is it a set up?). Because of his hero complex, he'll give his life trying to do something he's still conflicted about doing. He'll give his life because "I made a promise" even though, instinctively, he's conflicted with it, because his instincts will just say "this doesn't apply to me." Also, I suspect that it has a lot to do with the impulse that "it feels good to be able to say you're everyone's hero" even if he's not actually thinking that consciously.

Of course, I've been waiting for this moment for months now. Ichigo so desperately needs character development that I would actually like to see him trashed by Aizen, if that's what it takes to get him to understand. He shouldn't just be able to go around swinging his sword without understanding his own heart and responsibilities. He just thinks "oh, these guys look like enemies, I will take them all out." As if he has some kind of duty to do this. As if he is the judge of all 3 worlds, bearing the right to pass judgment on whoever he deems wrong. How conceited is that?

And yet, because he's gotten so caught up in this, he can't even bear the responsibility of his own life.

When you fight, you should have a clear purpose: "this is what's most important to me." But you shouldn't think "I will give my life for this" because suicidal self-sacrifice will only hurt those you love. To be able to protect what is most precious to you, you must first be able to protect yourself. Sometimes you're truly faced with the choice of either your life, or the lives of those you wish to protect. In that case, it's not so much suicidal as it is "they are more important to me than my life."

You shouldn't think "I will protect everyone, everywhere" or "I will defeat this person" without first looking to see if that's what you truly feel in your heart.

And you most certainly should not go around thinking you have the right to take lives whenever you feel that's the right thing to do. That's the logic of a murderer. Do you fight to protect, or to kill? For what purpose do you hold your sword? Oh, but what's the first thing Ichigo did in this chapter?

That's why hollows are monsters, and why Ichigo is being consumed by his hollow: Hollows have no clear purpose for fighting. They do not understand selfless intentions, they have no heart. All that is important to them are their instincts. If they feel the instinct to kill, they will kill without a second thought.

Do you remember why Ichigo originally fought? At first, it was because of a simple feeling of debt to Rukia, for her sacrifice. Because he had stolen her powers. She could no longer fulfill her responsibility, and this was all in order to save Ichigo's family.

But later, when he fought GF, things became personal. Suddenly he realized that this hollow business really did mean something to him: he was unable to protect his mom from one. The one he wanted to protect the most, "mom, who always protected me." (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/19/11/) So he decides that he won't be able to face his mom if he doesn't fight to make sure that nobody else has to bear the same grief he felt. As he said to Ishida: "I don't want to make any more of my kind." http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/47/09/

So then we find out that Rukia's problem with SS is his business too, because as he said in Broken Coda: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/56/19/ The situation is exactly like when Masaki was killed. He was unable to protect those he cared about, and instead he was protected again.

Well, so far so good. He plays the hero in SS and he manages to pull it off, because that is actually what's in his heart. That's what he really cares about. So when he finds out her execution is only a day away, he's able to call out some seriously insane determination.

Do we see Ichigo displaying that kind of determination now? No, we see a kid who's at the end of his rope. Well, what on earth changed?

The first time he really felt down, after the SS arc, he had three fears. Rukia even listed them out for us, without him having to say a word: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/196/12/

He can't face these fears alone. But he's always trying to do just that. So he just stays all gloomy and depressed for days, and Orihime tries to cheer him up: "Don't worry, I'm fine!" If that was what he was really worried about, it would have cheered him up, you know? Actually, it just made him more depressed, because he wanted to be able to protect her and, instead, when he tells her to run away, she runs right in and jumps in the way. He can't protect her like that, you know?

Orihime made no mention of "I'll help you bear this burden" anywhere in that. And, after all, the ones he cares about the most are the ones who protect him and fight alongside him. Otherwise he wouldn't have made special mention of the fact that the reason he wanted to protect his mom... Was simply that she always protected him.

But Rukia's message was "don't worry, I believe in you, just keep moving forward." And suddenly, he can fight again. He's not alone anymore, you know? So because he can believe in someone else who believes in him (*cough* cookie for whoever gets the reference), he can believe in himself.

You see, nowhere in these spurts of determination is "I must protect everyone in existence" or "I must defeat this guy who has not yet done anything to me." Because that's not what's in his heart. Well, there was the time when he fought Kenpachi. In that fight, he was fighting largely on instinct. So that's an exception. But Kenpachi really didn't give him a choice. If he didn't fight, he would die, and if he died he couldn't save Rukia. I mention Rukia because, if you remember, as he was dying in front of Kenpachi, that's partially what he was thinking about: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/110/05/

Is it wrong to be selfish? Not all the time. It's human nature. It's quite normal. So you will naturally think to first take care of those from who you receive. You will naturally think to protect those who mean something to you, instead of random people who you don't know.

So when he gets the burden of entire worlds put on his shoulders, he stumbles even more. That's in addition to all the stumbling he had just finished doing.

Because when he fought Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, he fought them mostly out of instinct. Grimmjow pointed out to him that "if you really were here just to save Orihime, you would have taken her and run." And I'm NOT saying that he necessarily could have done that. But what's important is that it wasn't even what was on his mind, he was fighting Grimmjow cause he had a score to settle. And he would even go so far as to get Grimmjow healed in order to satisfy his pride. You don't get the enemy healed if the thing most important to you is saving your friend from said enemy. But he had lost twice to Grimmjow before and his confidence in himself was on the line. He needed to be able to know that "I can protect those I care about." (which is one of the 3 fears Rukia mentioned in chapter 196, by the way) And in focusing on that he lost sight of the fact that... Protecting the damsel in distress is supposed to be first priority in a rescue mission.

When he fought Ulquiorra, it was a lot like his current fight against Aizen. Ulquiorra told him much the same thing Aizen is telling him now: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/318/05/ "I have no orders to kill her yet." ("this has nothing to do with your friend, she is safe, what reason do you have to hate me, to fight me?") But he kept saying he was fighting to protect her. He HAD to win to protect her. It's the same thing as now, when he's trying to tell himself that "this has everything to do with me" but, instinctively, he does not understand this. This isn't really what's in his heart, because it's not even on the line in this battle. Ulquiorra made it quite clear that if he lost, it would really be HIS life that was forfeit. Not Orihime's. At least not yet. There was still time. But he was rash, and he reacted in anger, flying at Ulquiorra regardless.

Because, DANG, he just can't be wrong. If he's wrong in fighting this fight, if he's fighting it for the wrong reasons, then why is he even here? He has to feel good about what he's doing, so in anger he insists he's right. He simply decides he HAS to win.

For example, remember when Ulquiorra questioned Orihime's motives? http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/342/05/

"Shut up. None of that matters." http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/342/06/

He has to keep his confidence, even when death is staring him in the face and he's completely helpless to defend himself. See, Ulquiorra did much the same stuff Aizen is doing now: Showing just how big the difference in power is, trying to make him see that it's useless. Trying to make him understand why he's even fighting in the first place. But you know, you can't question Ichigo's motives and get away with it. Because he's already having trouble dealing with his own fears as it is, and if you push him too far he'll lose all control over himself and turn into some crazy monster... A monster that has no regard for his friends.

A monster that does not protect. Its purpose is not to protect, it's simply to kill. So it mercilessly slaughters Ulquiorra (not to mention what it did to Ishida, and when it didn't even make the slightest effort to keep from knocking Orihime face-first into the ground), and what do you know... "This isn't the way I wanted to win" says Ichigo! Oh darn, you mean he WAS wrong? It can't be! Not Ichigo!

So he forgets all about his friends when he decides that, for his pride, he's going to have his own arm and leg cut off to even the odds. He just CAN'T be wrong darn it! It just can't possibly be!

Well, he doesn't even get the chance to prove himself. Ulquiorra lost his organs so he can't sustain his own life, and Ichigo notices he's even made Orihime sad by killing Ulquiorra (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/379/16/). But you know, he really thought he was there to PROTECT her. He was, right? ...Right? Surely Ulquiorra is the enemy here. Surely Ichigo is the heroic shinigami and Ulquiorra is the evil hollow and he's just fulfilling his duty as a knight in shining armor, by saving the poor damsel in distress from this horrible fiend. But wait. In the end, Ichigo became more hollow-like. Ichigo became a monster. And Ulquiorra found his heart. So who was the monster here? He doesn't even get that satisfaction.

Ichigo, in defeat, finally drops that front of confidence he'd been putting up. Rukia's the first to notice: "Those aren't the eyes of a victor, nor of someone who is ready to win."

...Or so we think. After his weak resolve fails to do more than nick Yammy, he decides he's going to go off without his friends and instead listen to these captains who want to give him more responsibility, in addition to the ones that he already failed to bear. Because it feels good to be able to say you fulfilled your responsibilities, you know. It doesn't even matter if you're up to it or if it's something you really care about, as long as you decide that it's just something you HAVE to do.

Well, now Aizen's telling him the same stupid stuff and he's just tired of hearing it. He's shocked, people are still trying to tell him that he's wrong. And he is NOT going to be wrong! He's here to save everyone! Right?

...Right?

If so, then where is that determination? Because all I see is fear. He keeps his distance and relies on his hollow, even though he fears his hollow too. There's not even any real hatred, just some impulsive anger.

This Arrancar Arc, which has spanned a little over half of the currently released manga, has been continually reminding me: Ichigo is still a kid. He's only 16. He doesn't understand what it really means to fight yet. And to be honest, I think that Kubo didn't need to take so long giving out this message. I'm so glad that the arc will be over later this year. Well, it might not be the end of the whole 'despair' theme, but at least it'll be the end of Fake Karakura and Hueco Mundo...

Comments

[eien-ren.livejournal.com]

Ooh you had me at 'cynicism' and lost me at 'not bashing Ichigo.

But it's good to know that soemone took the time to rationally explain why Ichigo is not God. I shall have to read this when I have the time.

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

>.>; I used the wrong term. Yeah, good call. I'll fix that, hold on.

But you know, you should at least read it before saying it's hypocritical...

[eien-ren.livejournal.com]

That's not at all what I meant. I hate Ichigo with a burning passion and was looking forward to a good bashing session. I was disappointed to find it wasn't.

...I really should stop trying to speak to people. -_-

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Huh? We all have our opinions, and there's nothing wrong with your's. If you hate Ichigo, and you actually have rational reasons for doing so, then feel free to tell us why. After all, the point of this entry is to analyze Ichigo.

[eien-ren.livejournal.com]

When you say 'rational reasons' do you mean in essay form? Because I can list several rational reasons without 'bashing' but I'm not much of an essayist.

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Whichever way works best for you. My only concern is that what you say isn't too terrible offensive... I mean, if you can be rational about it, I'm sure we can avoid flame wars.

[main-titles.livejournal.com]

Loved the analysis. I very much agree with you about Ichigo motives being sort of on uneven ground at the moment. The Captains and Vizards are very emotionally motivated in this arc, where the main character isn't. Orihime is fine, and he left his friends to deal with Yammy themselves. Now what? Take on the most competent shonen villain I've seen in age? Puh-lease.

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Thank you, glad you liked it. And yeah, I have been a firm believer in "Ichigo will get destroyed by Aizen" ever since I saw the end of the SS arc, where Aizen stopped Ichigo's bankai with a single finger and nearly cut him in half before he hardly even realized what happened. I mean, I like to think that even without taking Ichigo's mental state into account, it's probably common sense. Sure, Ichigo has hollowification now and there's evidence that he's at least twice as powerful as he was then (for example, if I remember right Ukitake said Ichigo's reiatsu was captain-level in the SS arc, and that was just before bankai... but then in the HM arc, we see Unohana pretty much saying that Ichigo has twice the reiatsu of a captain...). But even if you think about it like that, you also have to remember that Aizen hasn't even shown his bankai yet. Oh, and there's the high probability of an advanced hollow form, considering that Aizen mentioned trying to surpass his limits as a shinigami by becoming a hybrid... And the fact that he already has the hougyoku.

Yeah, Aizen is an awesome villain. He needs more development though... But I have no doubts that Kubo will give him some great development when the time comes.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

Ah you've really thought a lot about poor Ichigo, haven't you? I have too. I found myself nodding in agreement over most of this. Part of Aizen's charm as a villain is telling a little bit of the truth in his lovely lies so when he says Ichigo has no reason to HATE him, he's only repeating what fandom has been saying for MONTHS--that Ichigo doesn't have a personal beef with Aizen and it would seem odd for Ichigo to fight him; many in fandom were therefore predicting that the final fight would have to be Aizen vs Urahara.

The set up is Ichigo, shounen hero vs Aizen, big bad, and this encounter makes it so. It's the second time time Ichigo faces Aizen (and according the shounen formula which has worked with Ichigo in regards to Byakuya, Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, Ichigo loses to a major opponent on the second time only to finally win in the third go-round).

You said Ichigo took care of the Grand Fisher issue when he "fought to the DEATH" with it. Actually, as far as Ichigo is concerned, GF is still out there waiting for him, but given Ichigo's ADHD and short memory, there's really a tenuous link between Aizen and Ichigo's own mother's death. Ichigo isn't the sort to dwell on revenge and neither is he the type to dig up reasons to fight someone---he knows he has to kill Aizen rather than just defeat him (that muttering that he had to kill him as he leapt from the Garganta was stunning--Ichigo's NEVER said that before)but the killer in Ichigo isn't there.

Or is it?

Well, we all saw it on the dome didn't we? That "thing" (Ichigo himself called it that) killed Ulquiorra even after the fight was decided. That was killing. That wasn't Ichigo. That was wrong. And just to make sure you got the point that this thing was a literally heartless monster, Kubo has Ichigo stab Ishida.

Ichigo gets worked up with guilt over the tiniest things. Remember when Ishida showed up bandaged at school after saving Ichigo's life by draining reiatsu away from him and discharging those arrows into the air? Ishida's arms got cut--merely cut is all from that effort and Ichigo looked SICK about it, so sick that Rukia noticed, and Ichigo invited Ishida to lunch.

Remember when Ichigo failed to arrive on time to protect Chad and Orihime when Ulqui and Yammy first showed up? He was freaking MISERABLE! He looked like a dying man when he swore to Orihime that he would not fail to protect her again.

And now ... hmmm, I wonder why Kubo hasn't dealt with Ichigo's guilt yet? There have been flashbacks--Orihime's sad face, the eyeball in this VERY chapter right before Ichigo noticed that he'd stabbed his friend with Zangetsu, the sword meant to protect his friends.... but right as Aizen mentions the look on Ichigo's face where Ichigo would be remembering THAT HORRIBLE DEED OF ICHIGO'S we instead get a pile of rubble--

Ichigo's heart?
For me, this little panel says so much about what Ichigo can't face:



He's messed up so badly, our poor Ichigo. Seriously, I've seen shounen heroes do bad stuff while in their monster forms--Goku even stepped on his own Grandpa while in Ozuru form but Goku was too stupid to know he killed his own Grandpa and never went through any angst. Ichigo is the angstiest, most mistake-laden shounen lead ever. No bowls of ramen and a happy smile for this guy for a long while. He's got some serious issues to work out.

And oh, I loved it how you pointed out that Rukia named it very clearly before the start of this arc what Ichigo was afraid of. Look at what she's said again and you'll notice that Ichigo's failed in all these things--he's won a fight but NOT the way he wanted to win it so he essentially lost it, he's failed to protect his friends because he's stabbed one of them in the gut and oh yes, there's that Hollow inside of him that's freaking him out a little right now.



It was Rukia who said not long ago that Ichigo did not have the eyes of a victor.

I dread seeing what more our boy has to go through.

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Awesome, I enjoyed reading this. I always like long replies. Although without the pictures-

Well, anyways, you actually have the Ichigo and IchiRuki FC's at Bleach Asylum to thank for this essay. >_>; Because of all the amazing discussions I've been in there (as well as all the times they managed to put up with my stupidity), I was able to develop all these ideas for a good while before this chapter ever came out. So when I saw 388, it was a big moment for me (lol Bleach Asylum smilies...).

Yeah, that shounen formula (3 times to win) makes me think that this 2nd time will be when Aizen gives Ichigo a reason. I wonder if Kubo is daring enough to actually let Aizen sacrifice Karakura? Hm... I hope so, it would make things more suspenseful.

...Well, sure, I did say that Ichigo resolved the GF issue when he "fought to the death" but right after that I said "or at least, he seems to have resolved it by now, since I sure don't see any real hatred in him right now." Truth is, I don't think it's something that so easily resolved. But thinking about what you said, it really makes sense: knowing Ichigo, he probably just never even made the connection. >.> Now that I look back: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/11/ Aizen didn't mention GF back then. I think that the fact that Aizen made GF was revealed at another time, and Ichigo wasn't there to hear it then. Maybe it was during that flashback in the middle of the SS arc where it showed Kira, Renji, and Momo as students...

Hm, but I do think that Ichigo's hollow was born from him.

I know that, looking at normal, everyday Ichigo we see everything BUT a merciless killer. He could hardly bring himself to ever kill somebody. And while he did say this once: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/379/17/ "I know I don't regret taking them down." (I checked Ju-Ni to make sure this was a decent translation and it's basically right, or at least it seems that way) ...Well, if you think about it, if Ichigo meant "I don't regret killing them" here it would seem a bit contradictory. He didn't actually kill any of them but Ulquiorra, and he wasn't conscious then. So what killing would he regret? He's obviously not talking about killing here, just defeating them. Which is fine.

And yet, that's basically why it makes sense. It's not so much that there is absolutely NO part of Ichigo that would kill, it's how he reacts to that part of himself. Just like when he sees his inner hollow and he reacts either in violence or in fear, as if it's a monster. It's there, but he suppresses it. Really, it's an instinct that, when he's conscious, doesn't come out because of his inhibitions. But when he can't keep his sanity anymore, he turns into a beast. It doesn't matter if it actually seems to have a personality or not (like in the Byakuya fight, where his inner hollow came out, and we saw that it had a personality, it talked... and stuff), it's still the embodiment of those same instincts that came from Ichigo.

Of course this is just my interpretation of it. I could be wrong... And I also could have easily misinterpreted what you meant and brought up something that's completely irrelevant.

And I seriously lol'd when you mentioned Goku being too stupid to ever realize it. Yeah, shounen heroes are like this. You have to get this ridiculous amount of power from somewhere, and that theme of having an inner demon is one that a lot of mangakas love. But Ichigo really is a lot worse about this than most... I mean, come on, Naruto is pretty similar with his Kyuubi (especially when he went into 4-tails and found out that he had hurt Sakura), but even he doesn't go through quite this much... You really do have to feel sorry for Ichigo.

I never really stopped to think about whether he's actually even overcome a single one of those 3 fears. But now that I think about it, you're right, he's failed all 3.

._. Man, that's somewhat depressing.

The whole situation really does give a foreboding feeling, huh.

[mikaoru.livejournal.com]

Great analysis Silverkun. I kinda miss your long posts in the FC xD

Though I'd have liked you talk even more of 'the heart' and reach a conclusion about it, I essentially agree with what you said up there.

Ichigo need a reason to fight Aizen, my friends and I have been speculating who's gonna die in order to give Ichigo a reason.

And I'm amazed at how Rukia can read Ichigo in less than a second :) You certainly pointed it out nicely

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Ah, yeah, I haven't been to the FC in a few days, and even before I stopped I wasn't posting a whole lot. >.>; Sorry. But I'm glad that you like my long posts. =D

As for talking about the heart, I have written long posts (xD) on it before. I managed to find one, but... I need to warn you guys, it wasn't completely about the heart (just mostly) because it was in response to something in the Ulquiorra FC. Still, if you guys wanna check it out, here you go:
http://bleachasylum.com/threads/13235-I-Asked-Santa-for-a-Heart-Not-a-Turkey-Ulquiorra-Cifer-FC-%28v8%29?p=1994176&viewfull=1#post1994176

And here's another post, which I didn't make, that I liked:
http://bleachasylum.com/threads/13235-I-Asked-Santa-for-a-Heart-Not-a-Turkey-Ulquiorra-Cifer-FC-%28v8%29?p=1994443#post1994443

Have fun reading. xD

And yes, as an IchiRuki fan, I had to include Rukia in this. Because, to me, she has everything to do with this. Not only do her observations serve as a way for us to better understand Ichigo, but... Well, if you look at that post I gave you that I made on the heart, I think she has a lot to do with defining just what the heart is, at least in terms of what Kubo meant by 'kokoro.'

[biodamper.livejournal.com]

Very nice analysis! I will think of it while reading the upcoming chapters of the manga :)

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it. =)

[spartydragon.livejournal.com]

Ahem...

Rukia: Ichigo, don't believe in yourself.
Ichigo: What!?
Rukia: Believe in me. Believe in the Rukia that believes in you.
Ichigo: ... You've been watching anime with my Dad again haven't you? >.>
Rukia: Yep! 8D

Cookie plz. :B

And... definitely agree on most points, but Imma bring a third anime into this and wax a little Gintama.

According to Shouyou-sensei (the guy who taught Gintoki, Katsura and Takasugi), when you pick up a sword, it is not to defend yourself. Nor is it to defend your country or loved ones. It's to protect your soul.

That's pretty damn deep for a comedy series.

Ichigo doesn't know that little nugget of wisdom yet, he's still under the impression that he's fighting to protect his friends - which is a noble cause, but as Aizen pointed out, they're okay now. So really, his strength ends there. Ichigo hasn't matured enough to understand - really understand why Aizen needs to be taken out. He's not Gintoki, he can't just walk into a situation, decide he doesn't like it, and pour his whole heart and soul into protecting people he barely knows yet. And until he does understand that, he won't have the power or the balls to even be able to try.

I think, it was good that the captains stopped him, because that's what adults are supposed to do in such situations. They've placed a tremendous burden on a naive kid, the LEAST they can do his back him up and guide him through it.

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Rofl.

I believe you forgot:
Rukia - Believe in yourself Ichigo. Not in the Ichigo that I believe in, or the Rukia you believe in. Believe in the Ichigo that believes in you.
Ichigo - Say what?!
Rukia - ...Later, buddy.

...Wait, I just made myself depressed. I hate episode 8! And yet I love it! It's so touching... RIP Kamina. *cries*

So yeah, you got the reference. It's Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, my favorite anime ever.

*hands over lots of cookies* =D Hooray, friendship borne of TTGL! (reminds me of the time in FullMetal Alchemist when Armstrong and Ed's sensei's husband met... and the two men, being bodybuilders, took off their shirts and flexed their muscles, and suddenly became friends xD )

Gintama is a comedy series? I haven't read or watched any of it so I really wouldn't know. But now that I think about it... I've been meaning to try it out! Thanks for the reminder lol.

But yeah, that's pretty deep. Just reading "it's to protect your soul" makes you think "lolwut? that's so vague" but after thinking about it...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/268/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/268/10/
"It's to protect your heart."

I wonder if it's like what Kaien meant in Bleach. o_o

Thinking about it, I was too harsh on Ichigo when I asked why not let him throw his life away. Yeah, I guess it is an adult's responsibility. Good call.

[spartydragon.livejournal.com]

I... haven't watched episode 8 of Gurren Lagann yet... I'd been spoiled previously, had fallen in love with Kamina anyway and stopped at 7 to mentally prepare myself... T__________________________T

Ha ha! Anyway, YES that scene was so good. I see you are very manly. I'm pretty manly myself. LETS BE FRIENDS!!!!! XD

Gintama is primarily a comedy but it goes get serious from time to time - that's where much of the wisdom comes from. The comedy has wisdom too but it's of the "don't leave things in the fridge" sort which is profound in it's own right but not quite the same. XD

Probably. Kaien was one of those wise idoits. :3

[silverkun2.livejournal.com]

Oh, you think episode 8 was touching. You aint seen nothin' yet. Just wait till episode 11... And 15, and 22, and 26, and 27.... You get the point. Yeah, I remember pretty much everything that happens in TTGL. Watched it so many times. I'm like the biggest fan EVER.

YAY BUDDIES =D

[spartydragon.livejournal.com]

W00t! I likes my crack with substance! :D

Hooray!

[fikuz.livejournal.com]

I see you are very manly. I'm pretty manly myself. LETS BE FRIENDS!!!!! XD

LOL

I twitted this, hope you don't mind!

[spartydragon.livejournal.com]

Lol! It's all good. Lulz are to be shared!

...

Also your icon frightens me muchly.

[fikuz.livejournal.com]

mwahahaha

you've seen nothing yet!;D

[nehalenia.livejournal.com]

Really neat essay. I think you've brought up some interesting and valid points, especially about how Ichigo really hasn't been that focused during this arc. (Or pretty much since he got back from SS.)

What I'm worried about is that Aizen is about to give Ichigo a reason to hate him. His closest nakama are back in HM, his family is... supposedly in Soul Society, asleep with the rest of the town (tho I do wonder), and looking at the people arrayed there to protect Ichigo, I'm thinking he's got the closest ties with Shinji. And that worries me, because I'd hate to see Shinji go down.

OTOH, maybe Ichigo will look around and see what happened to Hiyori?

[eatsyourface.livejournal.com]

This discussion is interesting. Thanks for posting!

As old and experienced as the shinigami/vizards in question that stopped Ichigo are, especially Unohana who dumped this load on him in the first place, you would think they would understand that Ichigo can't do this

I don't entirely understand what you're trying to suggest with this. The Captains probably have their own doubts that Ichigo can't beat Aizen- Unohana didn't look too confident- but they still push him to for one reason and one reason alone:

They have to.

This is not an ideal situation. This is just how things are, unfortunately for Soul Society. Ichigo is the only person who hasn't seen Aizen's shikai; the only person not under Aizen's "complete hypnosis"; the only Shinigami with both immunity to Aizen's illusions and the power to land a hit. Hopefully.

And maybe Ichigo can't do this. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try this crazy plan. Because Aizen's going to kill one million people in his plan, and Ichigo is currently their best option- only option.

Which is not to say that the pressure won't and shouldn't get to him. But it's not even close to an excuse not to do it. It's definitely not an excuse for Soul Society not to try.



The reason he's actually fighting Aizen is because of what Unohana told him. Because she dumped the weight of 3 worlds on his shoulders.

The subtext of Unohana was not just "Save the world Kurosaki Ichigo."

It was "Save the world, Kurosaki Ichigo, because he plans to blow up your hometown and become god, and nobody else can stop him. Believe me, we would if we could, but we can't, because hypnosis! So it's up to you, because you're the only schmuck unlucky enough to have not been whammied by Aizen's shikai!"


He just thinks "oh, these guys look like enemies, I will take them all out." As if he has some kind of duty to do this. As if he is the judge of all 3 worlds, bearing the right to pass judgment on whoever he deems wrong. How conceited is that?

I strongly disagree with this. Ichigo has never set out to act as the judge of all three worlds. He's not out to punish bad guys. He's set out to protect the people he cares about.

It's not conceit to want to protect his family and friends from tragedy. If his friends are kidnapped, it's not conceit to want to rescue them. If people attack him while he is in the middle of said rescue operation, it's not conceit to go through them if he has to. Ambitious, yes, but not conceited. In fact, it is this desire to protect others regardless of his own safety that makes Ichigo a hero.



You shouldn't think "I will protect everyone, everywhere" or "I will defeat this person" without first looking to see if that's what you truly feel in your heart.


Why not?

Quite aside from anything else, fighting Aizen is undoubtably the *right* thing to do. Should Ichigo sit back and twiddle his thumbs just because it's not personal?

Short answer: no.

The lack of an intensely personal reason to fight Aizen does not mean he should step back and allow the mass murder of one million defenceless souls, and his Shinigami allies, whose ability to defend themselves has been somewhat compromised. Not everything can be the mission to save Rukia.

Then there's the fact that if Ichigo fails now, Aizen will undoubtedly give Ichigo a reason to hate him- he's planning to hit Ichigo right where he lives, rather literally.

[eatsyourface.livejournal.com]

And you most certainly should not go around thinking you have the right to take lives whenever you feel that's the right thing to do. That's the logic of a murderer. Do you fight to protect, or to kill? For what purpose do you hold your sword?

I don't think that's quite the right question to ask. Myself, I would ask, "Does Ichigo fight to protect, or simply to fight?"

I would say that one thing, at least, is clear: Ichigo, by and large, does not treat deadly force casually. We can count the amount of people who've died by his hand on one finger: Ulquiorra. And we've seen Ichigo’s regret, because while he might have set out to fight Ulquiorra, he never intended to kill him. It's not how he meant to win.

A murderer intends to take lives. Ichigo's guilt over his actions and his fear of repeating them are not what I would call characteristic of the righteous murderer you describe.


Ichigo, in defeat, finally drops that front of confidence he'd been putting up. Rukia's the first to notice: "Those aren't the eyes of a victor, nor of someone who is ready to win."

...Or so we think. After his weak resolve fails to do more than nick Yammy, he decides he's going to go off without his friends and instead listen to these captains who want to give him more responsibility, in addition to the ones that he already failed to bear. Because it feels good to be able to say you fulfilled your responsibilities, you know. It doesn't even matter if you're up to it or if it's something you really care about, as long as you decide that it's just something you HAVE to do.

Once again, I’m not seeing why it’s a bad thing that Ichigo tries to save people. Even if he does do a fairly poor job of it.

I also disagree with the point about responsibility entirely. I don't think Ichigo sees protecting people as a matter of "responsibility", much less his own. Kenpachi, Kenpachi of all people, recently had to remind him of his duties as a substitute Shinigami- his duty and responsibility to the *town*. Which he threw aside in thirty seconds to defend someone he wanted to protect. (Or arguably, fight someone he wanted to fight. Either way, he’s ignore his official duty.)

"Official duty" does not mean all that much to Ichigo. We saw that in chapter two; the attitude remains present in the Soul Society arc with Byakuya, and again in the present with Kenpachi. So I doubt he's doing this just so he can say he's fulfilled his responsibilities. He doesn't care about the responsibilities Soul Society gives him. Not enough.

What he wants to do - what he *really* wants to do - is protect people. The suggestion that it isn't what he wants to do, or is unable to do, causes him much angst. Granted, the fights he engaged in HM arguably had a lot to do with proving that he was physically capable of protecting his loved ones (a point I am in accord with you over), but that's what they were. It was never about murdering whoever came in front of him, and/or ticking off a list of duties that he had to complete. He freaked out any time somebody came close to dying at his hand. He even freaked out when Nnoitra more or less beheaded Grimmjow in front of him.

[eatsyourface.livejournal.com]

He's here to save everyone! Right?

...Right?

If so, then where is that determination? Because all I see is fear. He keeps his distance and relies on his hollow, even though he fears his hollow too.

I would agree with this.

But it's the next part: "There's not even any real hatred, just some impulsive anger" that I have problems with.

Ichigo didn't hate Byakuya. He didn't hate Grimmjow. He didn't even hate Ulquiorra. Just like he doesn't hate Aizen.

Additionally, how impulsive is his anger, really? Aizen is trying to destroy his hometown.

Furthermore, it's Aizen talking about using hatred as a motivation. Aizen is not precisely a source of good moral advice.

This essay talks a lot about the consequences of Ichigo fighting with poor motivations, but what about the consequences of not fighting?

He can fight wholeheartedly (which he is currently not doing), he can fight halfassedly, or he can not fight at all. With the last two choices, the results are clear: innocent people will die.

Going back to the point about determination, the lack thereof, and fear.

Of course that’s what the kid feels.

Ichigo knows he's done the wrong thing. He knows he was wrong on the dome. Every glimpse into his mind we've had since has shown his regret, shame and fear.

So when you say "He doesn't understand what it really means to fight yet", I can't help but disagree.



I certainly agree about Ichigo's conflicted motivations during the HM arc, but that's where my agreement ends.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

*flails* You're baaaaaaaaack! I love your character analyses!

Well, Aizen's points are always wonderful in that they're essentially always a little bit wrong and a little bit true. That's what gives his speeches that evil messianic quality. OF COURSE Ichigo doesn't need hatred to fight, but it's true that hatred is what purely motivates many fighters and sustains them over years--we just saw the best example of that in Tousen.

Kubo himself showed us that FRIENDS, not HATRED, are an eagles wings. In the previous chapter entitled "Eagle Without Wings," Ichigo was abandoned by Soul Society when he wanted to rescue Orihime. In the chapter directly following, "Winged Eagles," Ichigo was joined by his friends Ishida and Chad and he could continue on his quest with vigor and determination.

The theme is repeated in this week's chapter "Eagle Without Wings 2" when Ichigo falters before Aizen and then, in that stirring stirring scene, Shinigami and Visored alike, step up to protect him. It's Ichigo's friends who are his wings.

You're right in that Ichigo needs more than just gut feeling to fight and that a sense of responsibility towards his town etc should be more than enough (Ichigo's Shinigami identity was lost on that dome to his Hollow identity?) but I believe Silverkun was arguing that Ichigo's state of being confused and in flux can lead him to dangerous reasons for killing, not to socially responsible ones (the way I read the manga--the Ichigo who was going "I will kill him" in the Garganta wasn't the monster of the dome but neither was he the Shinigami with resolve to do the job--he was a confused boy afraid of his inner Killer).

Kubo plays with paradoxes and one of his favorites is that we all have this Hollow side to our nature( what in my culture we call the "yetzer hara" the evil impulse) that is all instinct and emotion and then we have that Shinigami nature that is law and order (to an extreme it's the unyielding stick up the ass I'll-execute-my-own-sister-because-the-rules-say-I-must Byakuya princle)

In SS, Ichigo overcame the Shinigami Byakuya principle. In this arc, he has to overcome the wild Hollow killer side of himself.....

Ichigo knows what it means to protect, to fight for loved ones, to fight for a principle, and he knows he's done wrong. I'm not sure that he DOES know what it really means to fight yet because he's so young--and as Sparty says, he does NOT know his own soul--he's still afraid of it, he hasn't conquered his own Hollow, and so from the wisdom of Gintama, maybe Ichigo doesn't know what it means to fight for his own soul .

I wonder if he'll find out fighting against Aizen. Because Aizen seems to have an almost erotic desire to conquer Ichigo's soul.

[eatsyourface.livejournal.com]

*flails madly back* Hi Debbie! <3 <3 How's things?

(We've always been here (ebontane is just lazier than I am); just ... uber uber quiet? But bleachness is as fun as it's always been <3)

The points you made are really interesting. I dunno about ebontane, but I didn't pick up on the winged eagle, and the point about SS arc being about Shinigami Byakushi principle vs HM arc being about wild Hollow Killer = so true.

(Erm. Plz assume that any "I think" = "we think"...?)


but I believe Silverkun was arguing that Ichigo's state of being confused and in flux can lead him to dangerous reasons for killing, not to socially responsible ones (the way I read the manga--the Ichigo who was going "I will kill him" in the Garganta wasn't the monster of the dome but neither was he the Shinigami with resolve to do the job--he was a confused boy afraid of his inner Killer).

See, I'd completely debate the reasons of Ichigo being confused and in flux, as well. I definitely think he's confused, and in flux. I disagree as to Silvakun's reasoning.

This is purely our opinion, of course, but Ichigo's really pretty straightforward. When he encounters an obstacle, he goes through it. Never around. And I think that directly relates to how he's thinking of this entire situation as well.

I think, for Ichigo, it's not a matter of "why am I doing this?", but a matter of “how?” and “what if?” and “can I?”. How can I best protect my friends, can I physically do it, what if I make things worse through the Hollow? These questions plagued him from the beginning of the Arrancar arc. He sunk into a slump because he was 'weak' and he couldn't protect Chad and Orihime and his sisters. It got to the point where he was doubting himself against a garden-variety hollow.

And this in turn leads to the HM arc, which is why I agree that Ichigo's reasons for going to HM aren't entirely pure. He's there to rescue Orihime - but he's there to also prove himself. He's there to prove that he CAN defend his loved ones, and that anyone who tries to stop him will be stomped into the ground. Not out of pride.

I’ve never thought of Ichigo as protecting his loved ones out of either “pride” or “duty”. The concepts don’t mean much to him, particularly because they can impede him in his self-appointed mission to protect people. Case in point: Rukia’s attempted execution. Frankly speaking, abstract concepts such as these are impractical as far as his personal mission goes. Furthermore, I don't think that Ichigo's desire to protect people stems from pride, and responsibility; he protects because he wants to. He knows what it means to lose a loved one, to have stood by, to be powerless. He knows what it means (from his perspective) to be responsible for the death of somebody, to be responsible for somebody being taken away to be killed. He knows what it means to cause other people pain as a direct consequence of his own irresponsibility. Ichigo's desire to protect starts there - and stops.

So I don't think Ichigo will say "I do this for duty/pride/law/order", because there may come a time when somebody will attempt to get him to do the wrong thing under the name of duty, pride, law, order. The events of this chapter might even be a borderline case of this, given how unenthusiastic he is about attacking Aizen from behind.

He'll do it because he wants to protect his loved ones, and he wants them to be safe. They don't even have to be with him in the same world - as long as they're happy, and unharmed. He's a practical kind of guy. He'll choose the quickest route, from point A to Z, to achieve his goals, and he'll do it because he thinks it's the right thing to do. (The "right thing" is also a type of principle, but it's not one that's subject to constraints such as duty, law, order, pride, are. The right thing sometimes results in going AGAINST duty, law, order, pride.)

[eatsyourface.livejournal.com]

As to Ichigo choosing to kill for a bad reason - I think we're actually a long way from that. Ishida summed up Ichigo’s methods in the SS arc. Ichigo has to beat the Captains enough so that they'll be afraid of attempting to execute Rukia.

It’s not about killing his enemies- it’s never been about killing his enemies. He just wants them to stop. He’s shown mercy to his enemies, with the one notable exception.

that Ichigo's state of being confused and in flux can lead him to dangerous reasons for killing, not to socially responsible ones

So, to get back to my original point - I don't think Ichigo's confused as to why he should kill – but rather how he should defend. He doesn’t want to kill (at all if he can help it, we'd bet), he doesn’t want to rely on his Hollow (because his Hollow is also a threat to that which he wishes to protect), and he cannot just look away.



I'm not sure that he DOES know what it really means to fight yet because he's so young--and as Sparty says, he does NOT know his own soul--he's still afraid of it, he hasn't conquered his own Hollow, and so from the wisdom of Gintama, maybe Ichigo doesn't know what it means to fight for his own soul .

I'm finding "fighting for his own soul" a little confusing, so forgive me if I've misinterpreted what you meant by it! <3

It seems to me (neither of us have seen Gintama) that "fighting for one's own soul" is something of an abstract concept, and Ichigo does not seem to do abstract concepts very well, especially when they get in the way of his practical rescue missions. What does Ichigo care for his own soul? Any angst that he experienced with his own soul - the hollow within - directly correlated to hurting the people he loved. Not being able to protect them. Destroying them.

If such a concept applied to Ichigo, I'd see it as thus: his own soul = his loved ones. When he loses his people, he loses his soul.

Furthermore, he has an idea of what he's willing to do (smack the hell out of anybody who'll hurt his friends) and what he's not willing to do (kill mindlessly).

Therefore, I think that Ichigo very much does understand what it means to fight for his own soul. Except - it's not his own soul that is important to him. It's the souls of his friends. Their safety, their wellbeing, their happiness - that is Ichigo's soul. And he knows that he wants to fight for that, if not necessarily how best to do so.

[spartydragon.livejournal.com]

*pokes head in*

If such a concept applied to Ichigo, I'd see it as thus: his own soul = his loved ones. When he loses his people, he loses his soul.

Kinda.

Yeah, it's pretty abstract, definitely over Ichigo's head. For arguments sake... I think it's more linked to... well, simply fighting.

Why does Ichigo fight? Why does he protect his friends? To prevent his own loneliness? Because he thinks he has to? Fear? Because it's the right thing to do? Ichigo knows it's the right thing to do, but he doesn't understand why yet. Right now, he's afraid of loosing; the fight, his friends, himself. As long as he's afraid, he can't protect his soul - which is EVERYTHING. The soul is the fight, the soul is who he's fighting for, and the soul is himself.

And that's about all I can explain without writing pages and pages of philosophical ramblings.

[iselinka.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much! I think I understand Ichigo much better now. I knew that he had issues but now I see that I didn't fully understand the matter. Thanks to your essay everything is now very clear to me :D

When I read the chapter and Aizen's little speech I couldn't help but think that Aizen is going to hurt one of Ichigo's close friends to make him serious. And I instantly though: Rukia. I wouldn't be surprised if she followed Ichigo through the Garganta. She WAS worried about him. And I think she realizes what he is trying to do and helping him is something she would definitely do even if it meant putting herself in danger.
Or maybe it's just me being tired of "no Rukia in the manga" thing ^^

And to be honest, I think that Kubo didn't need to take so long giving out this message. I'm so glad that the arc will be over later this year.
I so agree with that. I'm very tired of the new Ichigo we have to watch all the time now. I remember how much I loved his character through SS arc :D And now? I even get kind of annoyed when I see him. I'd love to see him changed back to his old self...

[styx-uchiha.livejournal.com]

Great essay, you enlightened much things I didn't quite understood before. I agree with pretty much everything, though, I'd like to add some things.

It has been noticed since long that in Bleach nothing is always (not to say NEVER) as it seems to be. For example : Rukia wasn't as self-assured as she appeared to be at first. Urahara wasn't a crouching idiot. Byakuya wasn't a heartless bastard. Isshin was not just an idiotic father. Grimmjow an Nnoitora weren't only about violence and cruelty. Ulquiorra wasn't as emotionless as a rock, etc.

It can be noticed as well through the role the characters take in the story. The setting itself is quite traditionnal, not to say older than feudalism (yes I use TVTr when I don't know how to say something in english >_<), literally. A princess is kidnapped in order to start the quest and show off the might of the hero who come to save her. But, in Bleach, the princess is too unworthy and too despicable (I'm pretty certain Kubo wanted the fans to despise her, though I think it is in order to make her likeable later) to be saved ; the dragon who kept her jailed, when relieved of his duty, isn't even willing to kill her or her rescuer (neither does the Big Bad); and this very rescuer isn't even concerned about her safety, or taking her back home. He only wants to fight the numerous dragons there are on the way. You said, Ichigo is someone who is afraid of losing. But I do not think he is afraid. I think he craves for victory. Deep down, he likes winning. And this is a trait many shonen characters shares. But up to now, when did this trait appeared as a default ? Certainly not in most shounen, where to win is always a resolution.

When did the desire to win overwhelmed the desire to protect his friends ? In fact it was foreshadowed very early in the serie, during the fight with Kenpachi : ""Do you want to fight? Or do you want to live?" "I want to win !" It didn't seemed important back then, but your essay made me realize Ichigo is, as there are many in the Bleach universe, a deconstruction of the shounen hero. A hero, obviously, is meant to win in the end. In Bleach, Ichigo always end up winning, but for this to happen Ulquiorra died. And killing in Kubo POV, and in mine, is evil (particularly killing Ulquiorra of all people >_<). Ichigo mistook the winning of a battle as an answer to each and every problems. He thinks he can resolves everything only by fighting (which is also a very common trope in shounen) which is a total utopia.
Ichigo is a hero who has been corrupted by his desire to grow stronger (even if it was in order to protect his friends) and ended up wanting to win no matter what, even through despicable means. Actually, Ichigo backstory up to this point almost looks like the story of a character about to turn evil.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

Ichigo is, as there are many in the Bleach universe, a deconstruction of the shounen hero

Hoo yeah. This whole arc has been upside down inside out land. I don't know if Kubo is going to deconstruct the hero insomuch as he's going to open and inspect him and then sew him back up like one of Mayuri's experiments. There's still a form that must be abided by and Bleach isn't breaking any rules even as it plays its little postmodern games with poetry, paradox and big mostly background-less panels symbolizing the infininte lacunae between audience and authorial intent.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

I love your comment. I love Bleach.

[(Anonymous)]

**Ichigo is, as there are many in the Bleach universe, a deconstruction of the shounen hero**

Dude, I love it when characters are deconstructed and go against the grain of a genre. Ichigo is starting to act more like Kenpachi this arc. Kill for the thrill, for the sheer unadulterated battle lust. I mean this part of his character has been hinted at in the SS arc and now with his Vizard status it's become a serious, glaring aspect of himself that he doesn't want to fully embrace and acknowledge. Once he does do that, watch out Aizen!

I really, really loved Aizen's speech to Ichigo when he tried and failed to kill him. This isn't his fight. Unlike Shinji and the rest of the Vizards and Gotei 13, he doesn't share their long history. He stumbled onto Aizen's plot in its final stages when he went to thwart Rukia's execution but even though he saved her Aizen had a backup plan in place. He doesn't have any reason to hate him and reality's slapping Ichigo in the face pretty hard. His 'mission' if you can call it that was to bring Inoue and his nakama home but he left them all behind in HM to shoulder the burden of three worlds. Not only that why do the captains and Vizards feel the need to step in and protect Ichigo? Didn't Renji say something that protecting a warrior is insulting? Seriously Aizen is going to do something to Ichigo to make him hate him and that scares me a little where Kubo is going to go with this.

Also, Aizen should never stop god-moding. It is made of 100% win. He reminds me of Iago from 'Othello' and his delicious motiveless malignancy.

[autumnsoliloquy.livejournal.com]

Nice essay as usual, Silverkun. Very enlightening indeed in showing what a noob Ichigo is. (oh the poor boy..)

I agree very much with you regarding how Ichigo does not understand himself and his own motivations for fighting.

A few rather incoherent thoughts after reading your essay:
-What exactly are the right reasons to fight? Is there a "wrong" reason? As you say, Ichigo's initial motivations was "to protect". But as you've elaborated, his current reason to fight is rather ambiguous and deviated from the original. Is a change in motivation always a bad thing? Or maybe, we can see it more as Ichigo deviating from his own principles of "fighting to protect loved ones" to a driving force that is more sinister? (Bloodlust perhaps? Hero complex?) Hence bad? Or perhaps for Ichigo, "fighting to protect" is no longer sufficient a reason, because as hinted many times throughout the manga, Ichigo has an inherent desire to fight regardless of reason?

-I think we also have to be a bit more lenient on the poor boy, other than the fact that he's just a kid, because when one's fighting one doesn't really have the luxury of introspection. Poor guy hasn't even had time to take a breather, what with fighting one enemy after another. And even if he had some time to ponder, as we can see he doesn't really have any other choice but to keep fighting, because that's what everyone keeps telling him. As you've pointed out, the captains just dumped him all these responsibilities of saving the whole universe. The poor boy (god, I keep saying that) is lost and these Adults are showing him a map, the "right" way to take -- it's only natural he'd follow.

-I see Ichigo as someone who thinks very simply. Not that he's stupid. He thinks in terms of arrows. World in danger --> kill enemy to stop "world in danger". In that sense, he doesn't need any other reasons for his actions. So long as the Cause and Effect in his mind makes sense, all the things in between can be disregarded and get lost in the arrow. This is illustrated in his many fights, i.e. with Grimmjow and with Ulquiorra. This simple thinking is just a part of Ichigo's character. Whether or not it is or will be detrimental to him, is rather subjective.

-I really fear for Ichigo's sanity in the future much more than his actual physical well-being/life. Young heroes/main protagonists often end up being pawns of a much greater scheme of things whether it be out of inexperience or ignorance. If they actually end up surviving in the end, the psychological trauma is harder to bear, because most of the time everyone else other than themselves make the decisions which have significant impacts on the course of events and ultimately, themselves. This lack of decision-making -- particularly informed decision-making -- is already evident throughout the whole HM arc with Ichigo. A glaring example of this would be the recent decision by the captains that Ichigo would be The One to defeat Aizen personally. Perhaps in his hero complex!subconscious, Ichigo had already known it would be him to defeat Aizen, but the decision was ultimately made by the captains and not him. He is just following. As you pointed out already, he lacks a clear understanding of Exactly What He's Doing. And that is already alarming when we think of Ichigo's future because Lack of Self-Decision-Making and Free Will lead to Regrets definitely in the end.

[autumnsoliloquy.livejournal.com]

(oh shit I exceeded the limit.. sorry for this really long reply ugh)

-I also think that fighting is ultimately and inherently driven by selfish motivations. When we fight to protect our loved one's happiness, do we not fight to protect our OWN happiness, because we'd be unhappy if our loved ones are unhappy/dead? It may seem that Ichigo is very selfless to the point where he can disregard his own life in order to protect those he loves, but I think on the contrary, he is actually very selfish. He fails to realise that his disregard for his own life, his perennial attitude to take on the weight of the whole world without EVER relying on his friends, these actions are very selfish. He fails to realise that his friends will be unhappy if he's dead. In that sense, he'd rather be dead even if that would make his friends unhappy, than be unhappy himself because he failed to defeat the enemy thereby failing to save his friends/the world. I hope I'm making sense, because it's a really circular argument. And it's 4AM here what am I doing still Bleaching??

Wow HM arc is ending? Finally. I'm really bored of it.

[jensen-invasion.livejournal.com]

Amazing analysis, the only thing I disagree with is his reason for fighting Aizen. He wants to destroy Karakura Town and that is the soul reason for Ichigo's resolve. His job is to protect that town and although Aizen has not killed anyone close to him yet, its definitely within his desire. So Aizen is just trying to manipulate him by saying he has no reason to fight. He has all the reason to fight Aizen since he wants to destroy the very place Ichigo calls home along with his friends and family. Even the Shinigami and Vizards are his friends now and you know Ichigo will do anything to protect his friends. Deep down inside I hope Ichigo fails at destroying Aizen and his father Isshin has to come into the battle, but thats just wishful thinking, That being said, I really enjoyed your essay and since I'm stuck home with the flu, this momentarily killed my boredom :)

[(Anonymous)]

Nicely written essay :) Analysis like this are always a nice way to spark or streamline thoughts.

You make plenty of valid and reasonable asssertions, but I don't completely agree on one detail in particular, I think that,Ichigo didn't INTEND to use "despicable means" to win--it was the purest manifestation of his inner hollow that killed Ulquiorra. However, I do very much agree with you when you say that Ichigo's desire to win outweighs his fear of defeat. Ichigo fears defeat because he simply CANNOT bear the consequences of losing--losing means death for those he is trying to protect and his (and others) subsequent suffering. Ichigo can't handle that type of guilt.

However, its not just about protecting anymore. Aizen in ch 388 essentially says that Ichigo has no REASON to fight him, which is true. Ichigo FEELS a responsibility to fight him: Ichigo's reasons for fighting are not grounded on anything concrete, but are part of his tenuous resolve to protect "just 'cause."

I think we forget the second part of Ichigo's original resolve: protect, SO THAT THERE ARE NO OTHERS LIKE HIMSELF.

Ichigo lost a person dear to him and because of such loss, he had become the Ichigo we met at the start of BLEACH--a person discontent with his life, with a heavy guilt and with no power or means to atone. Ichigo resolved to protect, so that no one would have to suffer the loss of a dear person and become the type of person he had been. Indeed, there was REASON behind his DESIRE--but that's no longer the case. Ichigo has lost sight of his REASON, his desire is still "to protect," its an inherent desire so deeply internalized within his soul (as demonstrated by IchiThing who's only articulated words were, "must protect"), but protecting without reason leads to: IchiThing--protecting because you want to fight, not fighting because you must protect.

"I do not fight because I think I can win. I fight because I have to win."--Ichigo in a nutshell

(disclaimer: I'm not actually sure in what chapter the, "so that there…." quotation came from [not exact quotation either :P] or if it was a just-anime thing :P haha either way, this is but a mere partial take on Ichigo)

*hope this adds rather then detracts from the topic! :)

[quaint-twilight.livejournal.com]

Interesting essay and it's always nice to see a constructive analysis of Ichigo's character. I actually have a different train of thought when it comes to Ichigo's reason for fighting although a few of my ideas intersect with yours.

(copy-pasted from a recent post I made on Ichigo)

IMO, one of Ichigo's biggest problems is his inability to accept himself for who he is. Ichigo refuses to accept that he is part hollow as demonstrated by his declaration "I am a shinigami" when Shinji first tries to convince him to join the Vizards. To put the "king and horse" argument into simpler terms, if Ichigo can't exert control over his power (particularly his hollow power), he will be consumed by it. And his current lack of control stems from his fear and rejection of his hollow side. I don't really see ossan or Shirosaki as separate or transient beings but as avatars of his shinigami and hollow powers respectively. They are both Zangetsu. Zangetsu's different forms reflect the dominant power in the soul and take on the fundamental characteristics of the shinigami and hollow in Ichigo: shinigami being the keeper of balance; hollow being the seeker of self-satisfaction.

Another way of looking at it is that his power can serve to fulfill a selfless or a selfish desire which can be seen in the two major arcs of Bleach so far. In the first, every single acquirement of power and battle fought was for one reason only and that was to save Rukia. With this single-minded purpose, Ichigo risked everything to regain his shinigami powers in the Shattered Shaft, achieved bankai in three days and defeated every vice-captain and captain who stood in his way to Rukia's rescue. It should be noted that Ichigo wasn't concerned with Aizen's betrayal nor did he think of seeking out more opponents to improve his skills because he had accomplished his objective. Rukia was saved.

I wouldn't say that Ichigo is selfish by nature, after all he wants to protect a 'mountain-load of people', but his 'training' in the HM arc wasn't exactly for the most selfless of reasons. Threatened by the fact that his hollow self would seize control, Ichigo was in search of the power to preserve his ability to protect. Being able to protect is the most important thing to Ichigo (heck, it's in his name) and in acquiring this ability through his encounter with Rukia, his need to maintain this ability is exemplified by how bad he feels whenever he fails to protect. It's not so much a hero complex as a protective complex and no doubt part of this has to do with his mother's death, where he "failed" to protect the one he wanted to protect the most. I hesitate to use selfish to describe his actions since they stem from selfless intentions. However, in the latter arc, Ichigo was fighting for himself more than for others. And this led to a kind of isolation from those around him. Ichigo has yet to realize the virtue of having others to rely on. His desire for power to satisfy a personal need was actually veering him in the 'hollow' direction.

IMO Ichigo doesn't normally fight on impulse or anger. Shirosaki once criticized Ichigo for needing a reason to fight and I think this has led him to think that he needs to engage in more fights as some sort of practice to ensure that his hollow is kept in check. And HM became his training ground and nurtured his instinctual lust for battle in the hollow part of his soul.

Ichigo knows that Aizen is trying to make use of Karakura and I think that's enough reason for him to be involved in this fight. I think he has this reason in his mind but emotionally, his confidence has taken a major blow because of what happened in HM. Instead of finding greater power to be able to protect he became animalistic. Ichigo is currently at a loss as to how to handle himself.