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bleachnessGreetings all
Though I've been commenting here for a couple months this is my first actual post to the community and I hope that you find this interesting.
I have been thinking for a while that the opponents that Ichigo has been facing in Bleach, at least since the start of the Soul Society arc have been forming a pattern. And unless we can some rather startling revelations some time in the future, Aizen simply doesn't fit that pattern and I'm of the opinion that Kubo canny an author to throw all that work and pattern building simply for the sake of having following the formula of designated protagonist vs designated antagonist.
All that having been said Aizen and for that matter Ulquiorra, just don't fit the pattern as they stand at the moment. They reflect nothing of Ichigo and they don't even seem the type to give some manzai style boke/tsukommi act that Ichigo engaged in during his fights with Ikkaku and Dordonii. Its entirely possible that Kubo-sensei will give us some insight into Aizen's personality or background that will link him to Ichigo in some fashion but if that doesn't happen and given my above stated belief that Kubo-sensei wouldn't build a pattern and then abandon it for no good reasn as things stand now I am predicting that Ichigo's final opponent will be some as yet unrevealed character.
That's just my thoughts on the matter. What do you think?
Though I've been commenting here for a couple months this is my first actual post to the community and I hope that you find this interesting.
I have been thinking for a while that the opponents that Ichigo has been facing in Bleach, at least since the start of the Soul Society arc have been forming a pattern. And unless we can some rather startling revelations some time in the future, Aizen simply doesn't fit that pattern and I'm of the opinion that Kubo canny an author to throw all that work and pattern building simply for the sake of having following the formula of designated protagonist vs designated antagonist.
The basic idea is that all the major opponents that Ichigo has faced to date have had something with him in terms of personality.
Ichigo's 'main' fights to date have been with Renji, Byakuya, Kenpachi and Grimmjow and I'll take a look at them on a case by case basis. I don't include his fights with Dordonii and Ikkaku becuase those both served the purpose of establishing the threat of his future opponents and giving Ichigo to show off the results of his latest training rather than advancing the plot.
First up is Renji both figuratively and chronologically. Both share similar loud and brash personalities but the true parallels didn't start to become clear until we got into the flashbacks chronicalling his shared past with Rukia. Both Renji and Ichigo shared close bonds with Rukia but Renji allowed himself to be cowed by the rules and authorirty of his superiors to the point where he not only didn't help her but actively assisted in detaining Rukia and delivering her up for punishment. This is a sharp contrast to Ichigo who follows his own instincts and goes to Rukia's aid. Despite the righteous smack down Ichigo delivers courtesy of a Getuga Tensho Renji doesn't fully become one of the good guys until he takes up arms against those who threaten Rukia (in the form of Byakuya) and tries to save her himself.
Next up comes Byakuya and as befitting a more formidable opponent his trangression is that much greater. Ichigo and Byakuya a both elder brothers and for all that he is sometimes aloof and a little distant from his sisters, they are very important to him and attacking them is a sure fire method of pissing him off no end, as proven by his fight with Grand Fisher. Jokes about 15 and strawberries aside, but the basic concept is even embedded in his name for crying out loud. Likewise Byakuya is an elder brother and even if it is only by adoption delivering his sister up for execution is possibly an even greater offense than Renji's betrayal of a friend. It goes against Ichigo's very identity and unlike Renji Byakuya doesn't even have the good grace to look conflicted about it. We can sympathise with Byakuya a little later on when we learn exactly what was going on inside his head all that time and he earns points for helping Rukia and Renji join up with Ichigo in Hueco Mundo but he doesn't earn his full redemption until he does the right thing (aka what Ichigo would do) when he arrives in Hueco Mundo himself. And he finally erases all past sins with one line. "You dared point your sword at my pride," finally earning himself membership in the 'Big Brothers Club'
Third comes Kenpachi and he is a somewhat different beast from the other two. Renji and Byakuya's trangression were in respect to their relationships with Rukia and their actions but Kenpachi contrasts to Ichigo in simply who he is. From the very first chapter Ichigo proved that he is quick to violence but while Ichigo's violent tendecies to violence are curbed by his sense of responsibility and ethics. Kenpachi on the other hand has few if any restraints upon his violent impulses. Even the few people close to him are more likely to egg him on in a fight than try and stop him. He is basically what Ichigo might become is he ever loses control of his own tendency towards violence and it is not without reason that Kenpachi was the form that Ichigo's own fighting instincts during his fight in his inner world.
Oddly enough though Kenpachi, unlike Renji and Byakuya needs no redemption. He stands as a warning as what might happen to the hero but he is guilty of no transgression and as such has nothing to make up for. He is a force of nature, deadly and without compassion but in his own way innocent. Rather than atoning for mistakes you simply unleash him upon a target and stand back to view the carnage.
Finally we come to Grimmjow and he is Ichigo's dark mirror, his evil side manifested externally. White to Ichigo's black, a hollow who has taken on shinigami powers against a shinigami who has developed hollow powers. To complete the contrast Grimmjow even came complete with his own team of followers to contrast with Ichigo's own. Tellingly perhaps is that Ichigo could only overcome Grimmjow by mastering his own inner evil side, even surpassing the time limit one the use of the mask that has plagued him so often. Whether Grimmjow will be redeemed, or if he even can be remains in the hands of Kubo-sensei but the parallels remain.
Ichigo's 'main' fights to date have been with Renji, Byakuya, Kenpachi and Grimmjow and I'll take a look at them on a case by case basis. I don't include his fights with Dordonii and Ikkaku becuase those both served the purpose of establishing the threat of his future opponents and giving Ichigo to show off the results of his latest training rather than advancing the plot.
First up is Renji both figuratively and chronologically. Both share similar loud and brash personalities but the true parallels didn't start to become clear until we got into the flashbacks chronicalling his shared past with Rukia. Both Renji and Ichigo shared close bonds with Rukia but Renji allowed himself to be cowed by the rules and authorirty of his superiors to the point where he not only didn't help her but actively assisted in detaining Rukia and delivering her up for punishment. This is a sharp contrast to Ichigo who follows his own instincts and goes to Rukia's aid. Despite the righteous smack down Ichigo delivers courtesy of a Getuga Tensho Renji doesn't fully become one of the good guys until he takes up arms against those who threaten Rukia (in the form of Byakuya) and tries to save her himself.
Next up comes Byakuya and as befitting a more formidable opponent his trangression is that much greater. Ichigo and Byakuya a both elder brothers and for all that he is sometimes aloof and a little distant from his sisters, they are very important to him and attacking them is a sure fire method of pissing him off no end, as proven by his fight with Grand Fisher. Jokes about 15 and strawberries aside, but the basic concept is even embedded in his name for crying out loud. Likewise Byakuya is an elder brother and even if it is only by adoption delivering his sister up for execution is possibly an even greater offense than Renji's betrayal of a friend. It goes against Ichigo's very identity and unlike Renji Byakuya doesn't even have the good grace to look conflicted about it. We can sympathise with Byakuya a little later on when we learn exactly what was going on inside his head all that time and he earns points for helping Rukia and Renji join up with Ichigo in Hueco Mundo but he doesn't earn his full redemption until he does the right thing (aka what Ichigo would do) when he arrives in Hueco Mundo himself. And he finally erases all past sins with one line. "You dared point your sword at my pride," finally earning himself membership in the 'Big Brothers Club'
Third comes Kenpachi and he is a somewhat different beast from the other two. Renji and Byakuya's trangression were in respect to their relationships with Rukia and their actions but Kenpachi contrasts to Ichigo in simply who he is. From the very first chapter Ichigo proved that he is quick to violence but while Ichigo's violent tendecies to violence are curbed by his sense of responsibility and ethics. Kenpachi on the other hand has few if any restraints upon his violent impulses. Even the few people close to him are more likely to egg him on in a fight than try and stop him. He is basically what Ichigo might become is he ever loses control of his own tendency towards violence and it is not without reason that Kenpachi was the form that Ichigo's own fighting instincts during his fight in his inner world.
Oddly enough though Kenpachi, unlike Renji and Byakuya needs no redemption. He stands as a warning as what might happen to the hero but he is guilty of no transgression and as such has nothing to make up for. He is a force of nature, deadly and without compassion but in his own way innocent. Rather than atoning for mistakes you simply unleash him upon a target and stand back to view the carnage.
Finally we come to Grimmjow and he is Ichigo's dark mirror, his evil side manifested externally. White to Ichigo's black, a hollow who has taken on shinigami powers against a shinigami who has developed hollow powers. To complete the contrast Grimmjow even came complete with his own team of followers to contrast with Ichigo's own. Tellingly perhaps is that Ichigo could only overcome Grimmjow by mastering his own inner evil side, even surpassing the time limit one the use of the mask that has plagued him so often. Whether Grimmjow will be redeemed, or if he even can be remains in the hands of Kubo-sensei but the parallels remain.
All that having been said Aizen and for that matter Ulquiorra, just don't fit the pattern as they stand at the moment. They reflect nothing of Ichigo and they don't even seem the type to give some manzai style boke/tsukommi act that Ichigo engaged in during his fights with Ikkaku and Dordonii. Its entirely possible that Kubo-sensei will give us some insight into Aizen's personality or background that will link him to Ichigo in some fashion but if that doesn't happen and given my above stated belief that Kubo-sensei wouldn't build a pattern and then abandon it for no good reasn as things stand now I am predicting that Ichigo's final opponent will be some as yet unrevealed character.
That's just my thoughts on the matter. What do you think?
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no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 01:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 02:24 am (UTC)It's possible that he'll try to fight Ulquiorra, but I don't think he could beat him easily.
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Date: 2008-05-18 02:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 03:39 am (UTC)To continue the idea of contrast with Ichigo, Ulquiorra could be seen as sort of a side of "giving in." Ulquiorra, of all the Espada, has seemed to be the one that might have had a truly noble soul at one point. Quiet, stoic, chivalrous. However, there seems to be an aura of despair and nihilism around him, which pervades his thoughts, words, and actions, and even his character album. It is not that he is pure evil or delights in carnage, but that he sees weakness and suffering as the only truths in the world, truths he can no longer fight, and therefore accepts with the same stoic quietness as he once had when he was good. Ichigo is the man who still fights, who does not give in to either his Hollow side or the Evil in the world.
Now Aizen? Yeah, I can see Ichigo not delivering the final blow. Aizen, Gin, and Tousen are, in many ways, still an "internal affair." I actually see Hitsugaya as a prime candidate for fighting Aizen, not only because he keeps topping popularity polls, but because he feels an obligation to Hinamori to avenge her. He might heed her words and try to bring Aizen back, or he might straight up Avenge her, but it seems likely that he will square off against him and possibly defeat him. Likewise, I expect Matsumoto may be allowed to square off against Gin and obtain the answers she seems to seek about him. Komamura, of course, will fight Tousen, his friend, and try to understand his justice.
In the end, part of me wants Ichigo to fight against Soul Society again, to reform it in some meaningful way. Aizen being a reformer who became Nihilistic who becoming less and less likely to me, but I think Tousen, at least, fits this category, and I'd like to see the clear problems of Soul Society addressed more strongly, possibly via Ichigo. Right now, he's too proud of being a Shinigami to really fight against the evident corruption in Soul Society (Which has only been highlighted more by the flashbacks, really), but maybe in the future.
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Date: 2008-05-18 04:51 am (UTC)Another reason why it wouldn't work is because Hitsugaya is the youngest captain with the least experience, and having him defeat Aizen would just be unrealistic.
If anything, I think it'd make the most sense for Shinji, Urahara and Yamji together to defeat him. For many reasons, and as these new chapters unfold I think that's how it's gonna be....
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Date: 2008-05-18 05:45 am (UTC)I'm not completely sold on Hitsu defeating Aizen, though. It's a possibility, and it might make some sense, but there's part of me who thinks he may go after Gin on behalf of Matsumoto too, and to finish their battle from the SS arc. It's also possible he may try to attack Aizen to "avenge" Hinamori and be hurt again, then on to one or more of the Vaizards or someone else fighting him.
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Date: 2008-05-18 03:39 pm (UTC)I'm not completely sold on Hitsu defeating Aizen, though.
My son would have a fangasm of epic proportions and you would be able to hear my weeping across continents if Shiro-chan were to fight Aizen. I'm holding out for Aizen fighting Shinji at this point--I used to think his opponent was Urahara but after the gaiden I want Shinji!
NIIIIIIIICE post
Ulquiorra, I believe, is a necessary battle--Ichigo's been downed by the guy and shounen law says Ichigo has to fight him. I'm not sure that the battle won't be interrupted or that Orihime won't take charge of the whole situation.
Aizen? Not Ichigo's. His story is outside of Ichigo's sphere and like Daniel, I expect old man Yama to die and changes to happen in SS that are on the periphery of Ichigo's involvement.
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Date: 2008-05-18 09:51 pm (UTC)Agreed on that regard. There will be a fight between Ichigo and Ulquiorra but Ichigo's not going to be the one to conclude it. I'm hoping for Orihime to be the one to actually finish it becuase narrative causality gives her greater rights to finishing off Ulquiorra than even Ichigo.
She also had dibs on Nnoitora in some regards since his past interactions with Nell got to mirror some of Orihime's recent actions with Ichigo but Kubo obviously decided that the time was not right.
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Date: 2008-05-18 09:58 pm (UTC)She also had dibs on Nnoitora in some regards since his past interactions with Nell got to mirror some of Orihime's recent actions with Ichigo but Kubo obviously decided that the time was not right.
Would you explain this further? Sounds interesting. Nnoitra/Neliel mirroring Ichigo/Orihime?
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Date: 2008-05-19 02:44 am (UTC)In that sense Nell mirrors Ichigo's position as a protector but the only one that Nnoitora can only mirror Orihime since all of Ichigo's other friends have basically told Ichigo off when he gets too overprotective.
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Date: 2008-05-19 08:40 pm (UTC)Ohhhhhh. Cool. That's true. I hadn't thought of that.
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Date: 2010-04-19 07:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-19 07:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 05:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 07:25 am (UTC)Secondly, I don't see someone who has had next to no contact with Aizen being the one to face him in the end. I've always liked the idea of Urahara being one of them, since he's a plotter of sorts (of course I just want him to have a larger part of the story since I adore him, but he can't have all this buildup for nothing)... and knowing what we do now, Shinji makes perfect sense. Depending on the exact events that made the vaizard, I believe they'll have a bigger role to play than might at first been apparent.
Hitsugaya has plenty of reason to go after Aizen, but he's not strong enough, IMO. Wasn't it said, before the Hueco Mundo arc, that Hitsugaya's abilities weren't fully developed? There are others who seem stronger, and I just don't see Hitsugaya surprising them. I'd be a little disappointed if that were the case.
I actually agree with wdboldstar, too, about Yamamoto. I think SS needs to reform and that won't happen with him in charge.
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Date: 2008-05-18 05:01 pm (UTC)I'm betting he'll fight Gin with Rangiku.
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Date: 2008-05-18 07:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 03:42 pm (UTC)You could be right though, someone else, like maybe Byakuya, might jump in.
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Date: 2008-05-18 04:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 05:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 07:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 07:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 09:20 am (UTC)Of course, I believe that Ichigo will once again be nearly taken over by his Hollow side (He's been gradually losing control all arc), and that the Hollow side will defeat Ulquiorra and nearly swallow Ichigo before Rukia gets it under control, so my perceptions there may be tainted.
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Date: 2008-05-18 11:06 am (UTC)I... honestly can't see that. There's been not a peep Shirosaki since his training with the Vizard and his ability to sustain the mask and summon it after losing it have been increasing rather than decreasing, indicating more control not less.
And if it's about the eyes, that's not a sign on Shirosaki on the rise becuase both Shinji and Hiyori who are in full control of their Hollow powers do that to when they summon their masks.
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Date: 2008-05-18 03:29 pm (UTC)That lust for fighting is more subtle than being pulled into his inner world and being taunted and stabbed by Shirosaki, sure, but the type of bullhead lust for violence he's shown for most of the arc is going to get him into trouble. When he's faced with a power like Ulquiorra, It may be that he'll be pushed over the edge again.
At the least, he's obviously due for a Shirosaki resurgence, from my point of view. He cut his Vaizard training way short, and Shirosaki specifically said that he'd always be waiting in the wings to take over. Both of those really feel like they're chickens that need to come home to roost soon.
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Date: 2008-05-18 09:36 pm (UTC)And in Ichigo's defence, both Ulquiorra and Grimmjow were gunning for him.
I suppose only time and Kubo-sensei will reveal who is right.
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Date: 2008-05-18 02:07 pm (UTC)Along the lines of
Nice post!
ps - sorry for all the edits! >_<
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Date: 2008-05-18 03:25 pm (UTC)Ulquiorra has become a nihilist and Ichigo has an almost irrational desire to care for everyone.
And given Ichigo's magical ability to transform just about everyone he fights into a BETTER person ....
hmmm
Ulquiorra seems one tough nut to crack but I want to see it.
I also want to see Hime be part of a double team to get water from a stone.
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Date: 2008-05-18 03:54 pm (UTC)It would be interesting though, if Ichi can somehow show Ulquiorra that there is something worth caring about in life... Uhm.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 08:01 pm (UTC)"That's what happens when you cling to hope
You set yourself up for despair"
"Think of our world
It is meaningless to instigate it
Pass quickly over those trivial thoughts. Moreover, crush them."
"Ah, my prediction was right. This is the trivial world
I'm not sure what will become of it
Well then, I'll do as I please CRUSH THE WORLD DOWN"
To me, those lyrics are Ulquiorra telling himself that any thoughts of peace he might have are trivial and must be crushed, because it is too much to think they might be worth something, and clinging to hope will lead to despair.
I really do think that Ulquiorra, even more than Grimmjow may be a redeemable Espada. He may still die, but I like to think he may somehow find redemption before he closes his eyes for good.
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Date: 2008-05-18 08:41 pm (UTC)I too would like to think that Ulquiorra is capable of a change in heart, if not a full-scale turnaround (I don't really see him going that far).
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Date: 2008-05-19 05:30 am (UTC)Here's the english translation I found. I think it's a fan translation, but I'd assume they're probably somewhat close to the actual lyrics.
I admit that a large part of my theorizing about Ulquiorra may be rampant fanboyism, but I honestly do see much more possibilities in him for reform than I do in Grimmjow. I don't think he's going to completely reform, but I do think he may assist the Shinigami or protect Orihime at a crucial moment due to the noble soul he supresses due to his own despair.
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Date: 2008-05-18 09:18 pm (UTC)Kubo is credited with writing those lyrics, ne? He usually writes one set on each Bleach Beat CD
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Date: 2008-05-18 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 05:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-18 04:23 pm (UTC)Kenpachi was always, as you pointed out, about violence and brute strength - with it he could just smash his way through everything until his fight with Ichi.
It was this fight that made him question the path of brute strength as the only method forward, hence his new desire to discover the name of his zanpaktutou...
I'd consider this his redemption.
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Date: 2008-05-18 09:38 pm (UTC)guessing?
Date: 2008-10-31 06:52 pm (UTC)Ichigo in the end
Date: 2009-03-06 11:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-26 05:29 pm (UTC)final fight
Date: 2010-03-18 11:03 am (UTC)- Ukitake
- Urahara
- Shinji (In his bankai)
After aizen getting throu yamaji i think ichigo should put up a good fight against aizen if not bleach should reveal squad 0 with ichigo's dad saving him otherwise yamaji should revive his rujin jakka and finish off aizen.
other critic could be that Ukitake or Urahara fight against aizen
and should end his saga coz the writter is really pushing to a limit
now!
my question is how can Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake fall they should be stronger than all the captains. Or why doesnt Urahara fights Aizen has he is hold sogyoko which Urahara only understands it?
can anyone predict?
like i said
Date: 2010-03-25 12:10 pm (UTC)i said earlier
from Ukitake, Sunsui, Shinji
not his dad will come.