Hellverse Final Numbers, Dumb Poll, etc

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

[Poll #1666485]

Finally, from nacchan here at IchiRuki FC at BA, the final numbers on Hellverse are in. According to zack_mori (twitter name for Bleach anime soundman) today is the last day for the movie to play in the theatres). Hellverse didn't make as much money in its closing sums as Memories of Nobody, Diamond Dust Rebellion, or Fade to Black.

The best movie of the bunch rakes in the least money? Annie remembers that I predicted that it wouldn't do as well as FTB because of repeat business. I'm sad for Kubo-sensei to be right. After reading summaries of Hellverse I do believe it to be a well-made movie with lots of devotion to the authenticity of the characters, great fights and a little something for everyone... I don't believe that the absence of the Shinigami OR the presence of Orihime were that much a deciding factor in the movie's relative failure compared to DDR and FTB. I do believe that the repeat success of DDR and FTB had to do with the fervor of their respective fandoms (Hitsugaya and IchiRuki).

Comments

Tatai

[(Anonymous)]

Ahhhh sadly I have no livejournal to answer the questions of the poll. But sure Rukia is the one I miss the most, so she is the one I want to see again the most. I want the return of Grimmjow and Ulquiorra too, but not as much as Rukia.

About HellVerse, well, it's really surprising. It's the movie for the birthday of Bleach and finally it does worse than Memory of Nobody at the box office ?! What ? While it's the second best opening, after, it does bad. I'm sad because the movie looks great. I don't understand, maybe like you say, the two big fanbases (Hitsugaya and Ichiruki) was not happy with this movie (even if, well, we have Ichiruki in this movie - even if less than in FTB. For Hitsugaya, it's true that apparently he is not really in it).

Well, I'm sad for Kubo (but not so sad because it's not a total desaster neither, just the worst of the 4 - and here I talk about the box office, not the quality). I'm sure Bleach will have a lot of success in the next 10 years, so I'm not worried.

[balladbird.livejournal.com]

My prediction: Mayuri edo-tenseis the arrancar, then allies with Aizen to wage shinigami war 2... just because he's mayuri and it sounded like it would kill a few minutes.

As to the hellverse performance, eh, it ran in the black, so it wasn't a complete loss. All I really had any interest in was the first five minutes (if it even lasted that long) anyway, so were I a movie goer I'd probably have been a jerk and left after that (they still got my money though, so I'm only being a jerk to myself. XD)


All these oranges are making me long for a new season of Code Geass. >.

[lovely-masoka.livejournal.com]

The bunny hood is so cute. <3

Ulquiorra pls that's all I want.

Orihime hairpin whereabouts pls. All I care about tbh.

Eh, not surprised about the movie tbh. Since my interest was the only first few minuets, but as long as Kubo liked what he produced he should be happy. XD

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

I feel like this arc will be short, but KT's slow pacing should be never underestimated.
Rukia might return at the end of it, or at the start of the next arc. Though I'd be very happy to see her sooner.

I'll be surprised if the location of Orihime's hairpins and her current mentality towards battle won't be revealed in this arc ar some point.

As to the new movie doing comparatively poorly, I agree that it might due to being another rescue arc. Another possibilty is that maybe the audience wasn't interested in the plot. If you look at pixiv, though, it seems like the the movie only characters are quite a hit with the artitsts.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

If you look at pixiv, though, it seems like the the movie only characters are quite a hit with the artitsts.

Fanworks always are obsessed with new characters though. I'm not at ALL interested in the OCs, honest--the draw of this movie for me was the nakama (IshidaIshidaIshida) but I've already started a fic about Kokuto. OC's give you springboard material for your beloved characters to play off--hence all the Kokuto/Rukia and Kokuto/Ichi stuff, lol. But yeah, I guess some people like him because he's really .... er... attractive as a character. Some people found Senna an appealing character too but I found her infinitely boring.

I can't imagine an anime movie without an OC. Kokuto and Shuren were as good as they come, I suppose. I've seen worse. For me, the familiar characters carry the film. IR carried FTB, not the twins. Here, Ichigo didn't carry the movie and not much new was revealed about the nakama--we got good fights and same old same old but no new dramatic emotional stuff. The Orihime scene with Ichigo was reminiscent of her farewell scene in 237 but people don't flock to see movies for IchiOri. They go for IchiRuki.

The exit polls showed more women attended this movie and I think that's what's behind the lack of repeat business too. This movie got the fanbois in for the fights and that was that. People didn't come to see an IchiOri movie (the movie wasn't advertised as one) or come again to see the fights. Hitsugaya's movie got fangirls back in the theatres again. FTB was a "date" movie during the holiday season because of the emphasis on emotions and a relationship.

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

I don't think, though, that there's as much fanart of Senna, Hitsu's forgotten childhood friend or the kids that kidnapped Rukia, as there is art of Kokutou and Shuren. They seem to be so far the most popular movie-only characters in Japanese Bleach fandom. Maybe it's because they're so shippable. (But then, so was Senna with Ichigo. On the other hand, I heard that people didn't like her because she got between IchiRuki. XD)

I agree that new characters can liven things up by being someone new for the established characters to interact with.

Advertising the movie as IchiOri would have been false, anyway, since there is that one scene where she hugs him, but unlike FTB, the relationship is not central or important to the movie's plot. And of course, as you said, the Japanese IchiOri fanbase is too small to cater to them with a whole movie.

[xmurcielagox.livejournal.com]

TBH......I really don't know what to think about Bleach anymore. This arc seems like it'll be a development arc for Chad and maybe Orihime *crosses finger's*

But is anyone else wondering where Kon is???? It's like he's been forgotten. :(

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

Kon's absence is weird. Maybe Rukia took him with her to SS because KT made the decision to remove all supernatural things from Ichigo's life?

Tatai

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just a little... well... surprised when I read Ichiori fans compare this movie with FTB and say that it's a Ichiori movie just like FTB is a Ichiruki movie (and by that Kubo and the animators pleased the two fanbases.) Because, well, we can't compare one single scene with a entire movie about Ichiruki. They have a scene, yes, but honestly, it's not a ichiori movie, it's all about the nakama.

Trying to sell this movie as a ichiori will be a desaster, because it's not popular in Japan at all. As Debbie said, the fans want Ichiruki, not Ichiori. They don't like this couple, maybe because unrequired love is a theme so usual in Japan and that in the girl never gets the boy in question ? Or for the obssessive things ? I don't know, but it's not popular. The japanese seems to want Ulquiorra for Orihime (they have more than 600 fanarts on Pixiv, almost as much than Ichiruki. For the information, Ichiori, renruki and ishihime have around 100, hitsuhina has 250, Ginran 400). And on 2ch Ichiruki has 35 thread, Ulquihime 8 and Ichiori just 2. Ginran, Hitsumatsu and hitsuhina have around 15 thread each.

Well, sorry for the off topic lol, it's just to say that Ichiori is not liked in Japan. But I don't think that it's for that that the movie dropped, maybe one of the reasons (but I doubt) but not just for that. Because it's just one scene and I don't see the audiences sulk the movie just for that. I think that maybe they had others hopes for this movie, or maybe they don't love when there are too many fight's scene (I don't know where but I read that the audience is mostly female for Bleach movie).

[xmurcielagox.livejournal.com]

Maybe, but it struck me just the other day that he's gone to. So that could be an explanation.

[burn1ngcha0s.livejournal.com]

He could be residing with Urahara, since Ichigo doesn't need to go to Hat n' Clogs anymore, maybe? *shrugs*

Re: Tatai

[annie-08.livejournal.com]

One scene is always enough for IchiOri to declare this is on par with FTB. But I'm welcoming them to claim such thing. Just that they also have to accept their "ichiori movie" is doing so badly and it proves how fans don't like it. But again, I always think only trolls would claim this is an IchiOri movie just because of one scene.

That being said, I don't think IchiOri scene is the reason why HV is doing so bad. But I can see it be one of the reasons why fans aren't enthuiastic to watch a movie again (at least for IchiRuki fans). A movie may cater to everyone but I believe it does more harm than good because.... In the end no one is truly sastisfy. Like... There is a scene for Ulqui fans and they sure will watch a movie because of it. However, how many would watch it again just for that five minutes scene? ( same would go for Ichiori fans, Byakuya or even Hitsugaya fans).

Re: Tatai

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

Some canon!Ichiori fans are well aware what it means that IchiRuki got a whole movie devoted to it which was endorsed by and contributed to by KT, so of course they need to grasp for anything that might give their ship "equal" footing with IchiRuki. Just the usual rivalry between ships. Anything is good, as long as it supports your ship.

I've known for years how popular Ulquihime and IchiRuki are, thanks to the poll in 2007, and since I've also been frequenting pixiv, the amount of fanart for these ships only confirmed it to me. Likewise, it's not news to me that the Japanese IchiOri fanbase is very small. But thanks for telling me about the recent number of 2chan threads, I didn't know about that.

I'm not sure, though, if IchiOri is so unpopular for its unrequitedness. I've seen quite a few one-sided ships, where the girl loves the guy obsessively while he barely notices be quite popular in Japan. (Gray/Juvia from Fairy Tail comes to mind.)
I'd say that IchiRuki is to "blame". It seems that an overwhelming amount of Japanese fans prefers it as compared to IchiOri.

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

That could also be, though, it makes the fact that he didn't turn up yet, even in a short scene, a bit unnatural.

Re: Tatai

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

sidenote--the IshiOri (or I forget what it called in Japan--UryuOri maybe) thread at 2ch was shut down due some trolling problem I never understood. But yeah, IshiOri is way behind in popularity on 2ch as is Uryuu himself. :( *sob* Uryu is loved in the polls though, less so in merchandise. IchiRuki and Rukia, period, is loved everywhere.
Ulquiorra, Hitsugaya and Byakuya--those are the boys who sell. And Ichigo, honey, I'm sorry your movie didn't do so hot.

And yes, hinodeh exit polls showed the majority of this movie's watchers were female. Most of the people in fandom who spend money are female. There's a slight tilt supposedly in Bleach's audience for female audiences (can't remember source either) but in all places it's that 20-something female group that spends the bucks on movies, merchandise, doujin, etc. I'm not certain but that group may form a good chunk of Bleach's readership.

Re: Tatai

[(Anonymous)]

@Annie : yeah, I understand what you say and it's interesting : by trying to pleased everyone a little, they don't pleased anyone at all. Because yes, people don't want to see a movie again for just 5 minutes or just a scene. And yeah, maybe the hug scene is one of the reason, because Ichiori is so hated in japan (I don't say Orihime - she has fans - but Ichiori, be careful, since a lot of Ichiori fans think we hates Orihime when we said we don't like their ship - they say too that Ichiori is popular because Orihime is 8 at the last popularity poll, while I'm very convinced that a lot of Orihime fans are not for Ichiori), not THE reason, but maybe one of the reason.

@Hinodeh : I don't know about this pairing, maybe you're right. But one thing I know is that they don't see one-side love like in the west. The unrequired love don't need to be required, however how much the girl 'loves' the guy, she has to learn on it and to know how to open her heart to someone else. At least, it is what I understand, I'm not into the japanese culture, maybe I'm wrong. And for example, Naruhina is very impopular in Japan while it's a hit in the west.

Re: Tatai

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

Woah, the trolling must have been bad if it was shut down. I mean, 2chan is probably pretty trollish to begin with, since it was the model for 4chan.

Yeah, Uryuu has it kinda hard. He's certainly not disliked, but he's also not as popular as he could be despite his nakama and Ichigo's rival status.

It's kinda sad that the movie didn't well, because KT was so involved with it. I don't mind as much with the Ichigo-centricness, he is already the main character, so unless there are some radical new revelations concerning him, I'd rather the next movie focus on someone else. (But please not Hitsu again.)

[balladbird.livejournal.com]

Yes, but Senna was shippable with Ichigo... that's playing with fire when it comes to Bleach fandom. XD

Re: Tatai

[(Anonymous)]

@Debbie : I think Ishiori is loved too since its place in the famous poll : 9, I think ? They haven't a lot of fanarts or discussions maybe because we haven't sadly, a lot of ishihime scene in the manga. It seems that yeah, Ulqori is more popular.
Ishida is a very loved character given his high rank in the last popular poll : 5, it's big. I think he is the most popular of the nakama, he has charisma. But you're right, I don't think he is one of those who sell the most.

Re: Tatai

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

The other thing with Gray/Juvia is, that there is no rival ship in canon, unless we take slash ships into consideration, so that might also play a role. And it is often portrayed in a very humorous way, so the Japanese fans might like that.

I can't say anything about the rest, but I believe you, since you seem to know Japanese. I mostly base my assesment's about what's popular on the number of pixiv art I find for it.

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is rather shippable with Ichigo and female. People do ship Kokutou quite a lot with him. I suppose Japanese het fans don't view slash as a threat, judging from this.

Re: Tatai

[hinodeh.livejournal.com]

Ah, so that would mean that the female fans aren't that interested in an action heavy movie. The mystery is solved.

Re: Tatai

[(Anonymous)]

@Hinodeh : Oh no, I don't know anything about the japanese culture, I talk about things that I read myself on others western forum, or about statistics on Pixiv or 2ch, so yeah my opinion is not more valid than yours. ;)
And yeah, maybe it's the rivality of Ichiruki that makes Ichiori unpopular because they all want ichiruki. We must say that the rivality is a little hard for Ichiori, I mean Ichigo and Rukia have such a big connection that it's hard to imagine or like one of the two with someone else.

[velvetsword.livejournal.com]

Kon? Who's that?

/cough

[velvetsword.livejournal.com]

Here's the problem in a nutshell.

Do I want to see FIGHTAN ACTION? I just had 100+ chapters/episodes of that.
Do I want to see Orihime's fabulous one-sided KUROSAKI-KUN bonanza? I just had 100+ chapters/episodes of that.
Do I want to see attractive bad people getting their asses kicked? I just saw 100+ episodes of that.
Do I want to see nakama fightan and rescue arcs? I JUST SAW OVER 300 EPISODES/CHAPTERS OF THAT.

This movie is just another 60 minutes of the same shit I JUST SAW. Why would I go to watch a rehash of things I don't have to pay money to see and I already get in the course of the goddamn manga?

First movie? Novelty, new female character, the bloom wasn't quite off the 'rescue arc' rose yet.
Second movie? Scads and scads of Hitsugaya all over the screen, Ichigo + Rukia/Matsumoto + Hitsugaya asskicking team up. New. Interesting. Fans love it.
Third movie? RUKIAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH plus the added allure of bad!Rukia whipping hiney with a scythe sans panties. New. Interesting. Emotional. Fans love it.
Fourth movie? Whole lot of nothing we haven't already had for the past five fucking years.

Best Bleach movie? Not by a long shot.